Mini Classifieds

1975 Pinto bumpers
Date: 01/20/2018 07:51 pm
72 Pinto Wagon for sale

Date: 12/31/2017 08:40 pm
Hatch needed
Date: 09/10/2017 09:16 pm
hood for a 79-80
Date: 11/30/2018 10:55 pm
windshield
Date: 04/14/2018 08:53 pm
Sunroof shade
Date: 06/19/2019 01:33 pm
need a Ford battery for a 77 Pinto
Date: 02/21/2017 06:29 am
Pinto sales literature / magazine ads/ owners manuals
Date: 03/21/2017 07:47 pm
1974 Pinto Drivers door glass and parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:52 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,292
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 505
  • Total: 505
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

sedan 1/4 glasses

Started by hurm2006, June 24, 2013, 07:11:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hurm2006

Install was very simple. I had about 30 mins into putting both sides in. It was pretty hot outside and I don't have the interior 1/4 panels installed at this time, you will have to remove the inner panels to remove the chrome along the bottom of the window on outside in order to get the stationary windows out. Everything is pretty straight forward. The hinges that I got from Dennis Carpenter (part number D5FZ-73302A12-A) are kind of pricey but they do work without modification, they are not super tight fitting into the body of the car but they do hold the window in place.
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

Alpine615

Ahh nevermind, I found it when I searched "hinge" for all departments (car, truck, etc.) My bad.
1980 Runabout

Alpine615

I am interested in doing this conversion as well.  I have the glass, but not the hinges.  Hurm, can you tell people what the part # for the item in the image is?  I'd be interested in ordering a set.
1980 Runabout

TIGGER

Nice!, those plastic hinges look like they are the wagon style.  Did they work just fine or did you have to modify them any to get them to work other than the cotter pin?  The factory hatch ones are slightly different but similar.  Also how much per if I may ask?
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

bbobcat75

nice install, just picked up a complete set last weekend for my 75 bobcat, how was the install?? did a quick look and looked like it was going to take some time and a lot of patience!! don't have a lot of both right now with my little one running around!!

take care
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

hurm2006

got the 1/4 glasses installed today
here is some pictures, I used some cotter pins that I cut down to make fit for the pin
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

289Wagon

The plastic hinge pins (385350-S) are available at at few places.
Note : some places don't use the (-)
I'm unable to copy or print the info from the parts search site. If anyone is interested PM or E me & I'll type up a list.
Still living the dream...In a points & condenser world.

hurm2006

scored me a set of pop-out windows yesterday, but the salvage yard had to pull them and they didn't listen when I said "with all hardware and seals"  I got a decent set of seals, and glasses with the clasps, but only one of the covers for the clasps, one wrecked hinge pin, no screws and no hinges for the body side  :-\  The car already has the holes in it for the pop-out style glass, snapped some pics for those interested
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

289Wagon

 I don't know what (if any) differnce there is, but the Ford parts book shows different part numbers for the sedan vs wagon.
The pick-up ones will work on a wagon. I got them for mine a while back.
Still living the dream...In a points & condenser world.

hurm2006

Perfect! Price is kinda steep but I guess its no good without them, Thanks for the reply's, will get pics as I do the conversion
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

Yelby

Yes, this is what I bought from Dennis Carpenter for my wagon.  They don't come with the pin though.  You have to either re-use your original pins or fabricate your own.  I was able to turn some out of brass on a lathe.

hurm2006

Anyone know if this is the correct piece that slides into the body? Or if anyone has tried this?
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

TIGGER

Quote from: hurm2006 on June 27, 2013, 07:53:55 PM
Is the 302A12 piece plastic? How about the pin 385350S ?  Are these pieces available aftermarket if I cannot locate them from a parts car?

Nobody reproduces them. You need to find good used or NOS. the early cars came with metal spring hinges.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

hurm2006

Is the 302A12 piece plastic? How about the pin 385350S ?  Are these pieces available aftermarket if I cannot locate them from a parts car?
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

289Wagon

 Please note this image is for a wagon but the system is the same on a sdn.
The (green) is inserted into the (red) then the pin is installed. Then the assembly is "snapped" into the regtanglar cut out on the sheet metal of the window opening.
Still living the dream...In a points & condenser world.

hurm2006

Thanks everyone! now I just have to find a pair now that I know what I need to get it done
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

Pinto5.0

That pic nailed it. Very accurate & shows the flip out lever that gets screwed to the car. Also shows me that I'm missing the little screw covers for my set.  :o

The hinges are part of the metal frame & are held in place by the gasket. The only thing that requires drilling is the 2 screws that hold the flip out lever inside the car.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

hurm2006

Thanks Ricpinto!   What on the car side does the front hinge point attach to?
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

289Wagon

 Might help a little
Still living the dream...In a points & condenser world.

Pinto5.0

It's all contained in the frame. 2 screws on each side attach the pop out lever. I just made a deal for a '71 half-hatch that I've wanted forever so my set may end up on that car in a couple months if I'm feeling adventurous. If I do it, I'll snap pix.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

hurm2006

Anyone have pictures of during a conversion? Or maybe some pics of the inside rear, where the clasp is? Does it just screw into something that is already behind the headliner? Does the hinge part at the front that is on the body side bolt to the b-pillar? Basically im trying to figure out what all i need in order to complete a conversion. Pictures are worth a million words  :D
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

Pinto5.0

Quote from: hurm2006 on June 25, 2013, 05:35:28 PM
thanks guys!
do you know if anyone makes aftermarket seals for the pop-out style?

No, I could use a set myself. Mine are usable but someone needs to make these
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

hurm2006

thanks guys!
do you know if anyone makes aftermarket seals for the pop-out style?
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver

TIGGER

The hardest part to find are the hinges that pivot the glass when windows open and close.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

Pinto5.0

They fit as long as you have the correct seals. I got a set to use in my '73 sedan.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

hurm2006

I've been searching for awhile now and cannot find anything on if a pop out style 1/4 window will fit where stationary window is. What is needed to change them over if it is possible?
'77 Sedan:   fuel injected High Output 5.0, 5 speed, 26 MPG!!! daily driver