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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

door windows

Started by tonij1960, July 24, 2010, 03:23:32 PM

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ToniJ1960

 I think theres nothing behind the regulator that would interfere its just a matter of can I get my hand in there or a wrench to hold it :)

78txpony

1/4" bolts with lockwashers and nuts will be best and easiest.  Easy to find at the hardware store, too.  Tractor supply sells them by the scoop, too!  (Okay, by the pound...  ::))
Just make sure that the bolts will not interfere withanything inside the door (I forgot what is there.)

I do have relatively long arms and can reach across a Pinto with ease.  Now my Oldsmobiles are a different story, especially the right rear ones!   This is where PW are helpful.   


-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

blupinto

Rob you must have longer arms than me! lol. It tsakes some calisthetics for me to begin to reach ther passenger window crank! lol! :lol:
One can never have too many Pintos!

ToniJ1960

 I was thinking the quality might be a let down on those kits too.

So what kind of screws or bolts will I need to reinstall the regulator with? Self tapping or with nuts and lockwashers, or can I use poprivets my poprivet gun can only use certain size rivets. Maybe  some washers and rivets?

78txpony

After putting power windows into my Olds convertible with atermarket "direct fit" parts, I will not do it again. 
Fit was not direct, and there were mods galore.  Quality of the parts were less than crappy.  Gears stripped after 25 cycles, rivets broke off the mechanism, windows move at the speed of light (almost).
Not worth the 800 bucks at all. 

If you stick with good original parts, you will have fewer problems. 
Pintos do not really have the need for PW, either - 2 doors within easy arm reach.
If there were back windows that opened, or it was a ragtop, PW would be very convenient. 
Just my thoughts.

I will pull out my spare reg this evening (or next) and see how it looks outside the door.
Glad your disassembly went well!

PS - I never got the picture you sent - musta went into the bit-bucket in the sky...
Bugs?  We got plenty here.  Luckily the spare doors are in my air conditioned workshop.
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

ToniJ1960

 We got the window regulator out tonight even though my boyfriend was whining about the insects outside. I had to sort of drill around the pins of the rivets because the drill bits I have wouldnt touch the metal that the pins are made of.Once I drilled around enough the pins came out and then I used a bigger bit to drill the rest out once the pins left a nice hole. So the regulator is out. And the wire I tried to use to raise and lower the window snapped it seemed pretty strong but it does take a lot to raise it. The pipe clamp around the vertical column did hold the window up enough that it didnt fall all the way out though :) so I clamped a small screwdriver to the column part that holds the window all the way shut for now,until I get a regulator to put in.

On a side note does anyone know if the universal power window kits are worth trying?

ToniJ1960

 ok the picture I have is basically the one you sent me but I drew a yellow arrow pointing to the part that wobbles, and a black arrow pointing to where I think putting a clamp will keep the window from dropping too far down,instead of using blocks underneath. I sent you that modified picture in my last email I think. Maybe I can get my laptop out there and hook my webcam to it tommorrow and take some actual ones of mine.

78txpony

Just email me the picture and i can post it for ya. 
I want to see the bigger one anyway. 
Triangle teeth, slippage - time for a new reg. 
If they are greased and not abused, they last a long time. 
The gear teeth are so worn that the window is sticking up.
Once you replace it, a release wire or whatever will not be needed. 
1/2" long bolts & nuts will reinstall the new reg. 
It is pretty easy - just wear long sleeves and or long rubber gloves to keep from getting "cheese-gratered-arm"...
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

r4pinto

Yep, you got it. The replacement can just be bolted back in, no need to rivet it in  unless you wanted to.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

ToniJ1960

 And does that come out in one piece if you drill out the rivets? And the replacement will go in with bolts or need to be riveted?

r4pinto

Sounds like you need a new window regulator. The regulator is the thing that the crank mounts to & rolls the window up & down.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

ToniJ1960

 Well I got the door panel off because when I came home today my door window wouldnt go up or down at all. What I saw the teeth on the long arm in the door looked ok except maybe the very top 3 teeth.But the rest all looked ok still rusty and symmetrical. So it doesnt really explain why it would go up easier than going down as it does now since I sprayed a bunch of wd everywhere in there lol. But even though it does go up better it strill slips a turn then grabs again.Going down it wont budge from the top unless I pull down on the long arm that is connected to the window frame to get it started.Then it goes so far and you can se it actually move back up an inch almost like its a spring.It does bind when I turn it.And the round part the cranck goes onto is loose itself and wobbles.

I can post up a picture since someone was so nice to send me some and highlight the areas to look at.I added a yellow arrow to the part that wobbles. So if someone will help me and tell me how to add an image to my post or where to upload them too I will appreciate that :)

For the time being Im leaving my door panel off because I need to get my windows up and down. It came off pretty well I think 2 clips werent nice and pulled out of the panel it couldve been worse. Does anyone know a way to put the clips back into the panel like a repair or should I just use silicone cement on those two spots to hold the panel down when it goes back in?

Im thinking of drillig a hole and dropping a metal cable into the door and wrapping it around the part that slides up and down and make an emergency window crank,maybe later replace it with a motor and have a power window. Instead of a block of wood to keep the window from dropping Im thinking of a piece of crate strap bolted around the metal channel to keep it from dropping too far ( I know a picture would be helpful (

78txpony

The wagon and sedan should use the same regs. 
PM me your email address and I will send you some pictures and how to check if the regulator is stripped out. 
You will need to have the door panel off of yours to check.
I want to be sure this is what you need.

Mine looks pretty good - should last a while just needs some cleaning and a good lubing before use. 
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

ToniJ1960

 1978 wagon drivers door

78txpony

Quote from: tonij1960 on July 26, 2010, 01:38:40 PM
I can pretty much tell by the feel its not the crank handle itself slipping plus it does it in the same places all the time,near the top mostly,and does go up and down well in certain areas. Would you like to sell that gear you have :)
Let me look at the one I have to make sure it is okay - i think it is.
This is for the driver door right? 
What year is yours again?
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

ToniJ1960

 I can pretty much tell by the feel its not the crank handle itself slipping plus it does it in the same places all the time,near the top mostly,and does go up and down well in certain areas. Would you like to sell that gear you have :)

78txpony

Quote from: tonij1960 on July 25, 2010, 05:15:37 PM
And the slipping is mostly when rolling the window up for some reason and its the worst right near the very top.I haver to actually wrap my fingers around the glass and pull it up as I turn the handle,or else it just turns and turns and doesnt move. It does feel like a gear slipping,if I need that gear I hope you still have it who knows where I would ever  find another one
The most strain and wear in the mechanism is in the top inch of travel due to higher effort required for sealing of the window. 
You need to find out what is slipping on what.  If the crank handle hole is full of metal shavings, then it is stripped.  Try the handle from the other door.  This is the only easy fix.
If that does not work, then it would be the regulator gear(s).  This will be more difficult, but not too bad.
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

78txpony

Quote from: blupinto on July 25, 2010, 10:12:00 PM
That's actually not a bad price! Thank you! Now it begs the question: How hard is it to install? The channels/fuzzy squeegies/sweepers?
The channel inserts will require the bottom stops be lowered and the adjustment screw in the jamb be loosened a lot to get the jamb side channel in and out.  Try to keep the cussing in a low tone of voice.   ::)
Pry out the old and scape out the adhesive with a screwdriver or a similar plastic or wood object to avoid damaging paint. 
while window is loosey goosey and low, replace the sweepers (I thing they snap in and out - did not do those on my car).

Install new channel and use small amounts of weatherstrip adhesive to secure it.  Insert jamb side first and roll to the the corner.  Don't forget to put the metal window guide back on!
That 90* corner will take some creative accurate cutting with a razor blade. 
Insert the rest and cut the end. 
readjust the stops and adj screw in the jamb for smooth operation. 
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

Pinto5.0

Quote from: blupinto on July 25, 2010, 10:12:00 PM
That's actually not a bad price! Thank you! Now it begs the question: How hard is it to install? The channels/fuzzy squeegies/sweepers?

The channel should be easy, just pop out the old, cut the new one to size & put it in the track. Squeegees & fuzzies need some holes drilled for the screws that hold em on I think. I read the instructions briefly before sticking them in the rafters till Im ready.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

blupinto

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on July 25, 2010, 11:20:40 AM
The window channel itself is cheap from them, 20 bucks for enough for both sides. Squeegees/fuzzies were 95 I think & door seals were another 95.

That's actually not a bad price! Thank you! Now it begs the question: How hard is it to install? The channels/fuzzy squeegies/sweepers?
One can never have too many Pintos!

ToniJ1960

 ok thank you everybody :) I will check into buying the window felt for $20. And the slipping is mostly when rolling the window up for some reason and its the worst right near the very top.I haver to actually wrap my fingers around the glass and pull it up as I turn the handle,or else it just turns and turns and doesnt move. It does feel like a gear slipping,if I need that gear I hope you still have it who knows where I would ever  find another one

Pinto5.0

The window channel itself is cheap from them, 20 bucks for enough for both sides. Squeegees/fuzzies were 95 I think & door seals were another 95.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

78txpony

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on July 24, 2010, 07:39:12 PM
The slipping sounds like a bad gearbox. Popping off the track is usually a bad roller or rusted out track.

As for the sweeps & fuzzies, I found a place in Florida, Convertible Top Specialists on Ebay & for around 210 bucks I got new door seals, inner & outer squeegees/fuzzies & new window channel for both sides. Not cheap, but worth it to seal em up tight.

Yep, that would be topsdown.com.  I bought the window channel directly from them and that sealed my windows snuggly.  I wish i got the sweeper felts, too. 

Where is the slipping occuring?  If it is NOT the crank on the shaft, then it is most likely the big regulator gear in the door.  These can be bought used (I have one if you need). 
The guide block can still be had in the HELP! section at the auto parts store.  Once you get the door panel off, the causes will be more evident.

Removing the door panel wll require the special tool that looks like a putty knife with a deep slot cut into it.  Use a rag to protect surrounding paint. 


-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

dave1987

One thing that helpped on my 78 sedan was to adjust the nut on the outside of the front of the door next to the upper hinge. That nut adjust the depth of the track the fronnt of the glass rides on. Once I adjusted that it stopped slipping off the track and was as noisy as far as rattling goes. It still rattles some but not to the frustration point.

I would like to play around with the door windows more to tighten the up some and change out the rollersbut just don't have the time.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

ToniJ1960

 I used to be abler to find good spots where the windows quit rattling bad but not anymore I suppose its too far gone.Maybe once I get the roller to quit slipping (I have to help the drivers window at the top) I can figure out something to put in the sides of the window frame maybe that will  help.

Pinto5.0

The slipping sounds like a bad gearbox. Popping off the track is usually a bad roller or rusted out track.

As for the sweeps & fuzzies, I found a place in Florida, Convertible Top Specialists on Ebay & for around 210 bucks I got new door seals, inner & outer squeegees/fuzzies & new window channel for both sides. Not cheap, but worth it to seal em up tight.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

blupinto

I think one- if not THE- biggest reasons the windows rattle is those velvet-sided sweeper things that keeps moisture from going into the door itself. If that's brittle and dry-rotted out the window will rattle. Sadly all three of my Pinto steeds have rattly windows and I too am afraid one day they'll rattle themselves broken. In the meantime, play with rolling the window down to find a sweet spot where the window is supported a little better. As for the window slippage... I've had a window go off the track (PITA) and it ended up being because the white plastic (the brittle stuff) wheels and etc. had shattered. Like Matt said, you'll just have to remove the panel off the door and see what's going on.
One can never have too many Pintos!

r4pinto

It depends what is bad on the window itself. For the door panel there is a tool call a door clip tool, sold at any auto parts store. It's really cheap & can pop the clips from the door without damaging the panel. The window crank is held on with a philips screw & the door handle is held on by 3/8" head bolts. Just use a 3/8" socket to remove those bolts.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

ToniJ1960

 Is there a particular tool or type of tool that makes removing the panels better? And will the roller make the glass so loose? I saw some rollers on ebay,they were square items with what looked like a screw in them. Is that the right thing to be looking for either inside the door or to be buying to replace them?

r4pinto

The door is easy to get in to after you remove the door panel, but be careful when you remove the panel. They can be easily torn & are hard to find replacements. The best thing that can be done once the panel is off is to check the rollers & guides to see if there are any problems.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress