Mini Classifieds

rear hatch back louvers

Date: 04/18/2017 12:44 pm
Center armrest for 1979 pinto . Possible anyone who makes them of has one for sale
Date: 08/13/2017 02:01 pm
1977 Pinto for parts

Date: 10/10/2018 06:25 pm
Ford Speedometer Hall-Effect sensor with 6 foot speedometer cable

Date: 12/30/2022 01:30 pm
74 Pinto Hub Caps & Trim Rings

Date: 02/18/2017 04:47 pm
upholstery for bucket seats
Date: 10/30/2018 08:44 am
Custom Pinto Project

Date: 06/12/2016 07:37 pm
79 pinto small parts
Date: 04/24/2019 03:16 pm
'80 Pinto Wagon
Date: 02/01/2018 05:20 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,574
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 905
  • Online ever: 1,722 (May 04, 2025, 02:19:48 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 565
  • Total: 565
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Looking at a parts 78 Wagon on Wednesday

Started by dave1987, April 22, 2010, 12:48:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dave1987

I picked up the tailgate that I bought today.

Also picked up the following items:

Front and Rear Bumpers w/insulators
Door Sills & Cardboard Pieces
Windshield Trim
Rear Tailgate Weatherstrip
Front Turnsignal Lenses
Battery Tray
Washer Fluid Bottle
Some Vacuum Devices on the driver's side fender

Got it all for $40! :D


Now the leftovers. He's going to keep the car for a month or two longer, and wants to sell as much as he can before he sends it to the scrap metal place.

The car has some nice solid floor pans, all he wants off the car is the transmission/drive line tunnel for his hot rod, but won't cut into the floors for it. there is some surface rust on the driver's side pan but it IS solid. He wants $20 per pan for them. I will go over and pick them up for someone but I would have to charge a little more due to the distance (about 30 miles from here). Not bad though, and I know there are some members looking for good replacement pans!

The fenders are in great shape, hood, doors, and all the glass but the windshield and the rear glass is there. I want the driver's side door glass but don't know if it will still be there since he has someone interested in the doors for the skins.

The driver's side sheet metal and quarter panels are decent, they have some dents and little bit of rust at the bottom of the rear quarter panel, but could be repaired and a nice replacement. The passenger side quarter panel isn't in as great of shape but decent enough to do a little bit of body work done on it for it to be nice.

He has the taillights which are complete and undamaged, but faded.

The dash itself is there, but is stripped. I don't know if anyone wants a bare dash, but I have two in storage if anyone is looking for one.


If someone wants the tailgate, I have it available for sale, it's big and heavy though! All I want off it is the emblems and the glass.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Will be going back out there on Monday or Wednesday to pick up the rear door I purchased, and buy the bumpers and turnsignal lenses while I'm out there.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

78_starsky

thanks dave,  I have a line on door locks with keys.  No worries on the PSlines,  will figure out something.  thanks

dave1987

No suspension or drive train left, he took it all out to use on his hot rod project, so a negative on the power steering lines. :(

I could get the door locks for you by pulling the doors off the car, but there are no keys.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

78_starsky

Does the car have power steering?  I am in need of the 2 lines that feed the steering down on the rack,  plus door keys/lock system.

thanks

dave1987

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, to cheap to be true....

The salvage yard that has them said they have had them for at least 15 years and have just been collecting dust the whole time, no one has ever called about them until I just did.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

77pintocw

Hey dave1987:

Good luck with your new/old windshield!

As for the three NEW Pinto windshields for $75 each, I am looking for an
original Pinto windshield like the one you just got for Brownie and not an
aftermarket windshield.  Do you know if they are NOS windshields or aftermarket?
$75 seems like a low price for NOS windshields.

The windshield I am looking for fits a '77 which has the gasket and is tinted.

Thanks,

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

dave1987

It is tinted across the top of the glass. I'm actually planning to put it in Brownie though.

I have a source locally about 45 minutes from here that has three NEW Pinto windshields for $75 each, or one used one for $55. Let me know if you are interested and I will go out there with the gasket type one I have in storage for Brownie to compare glass sizes to be sure I can get you the gasket/non-gasket one you need!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

77pintocw

Hey dave1987:

Is the '78 windshield tinted along the top edge?  If so, what kind
of shape is the windshield in, are the edges clean, any chips, etc.?

Thanks,

77pintocw
1977, Pinto Cruising Wagon, White with Blue Graphics

blupinto

Dave, thank you for trying. They're notoriously hard to remove without destroying them.  I appreciate it. ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

Tried to get the window inserts but the one side i tried it on broke. any other ways of getting it out besides pulling it straight out? The car has light blue interior. i tried to get the door panels but couldn with the trailor it is on being in the way.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

blupinto

I'm looking for the gray piece... plus any green interior parts...
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

Uh... those pop-out window inserts where the window pivots. They're plastic and usually have a plastic pin too.
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

Picked up the windshield today, along with the the dash pad, headliner, door handles, wiper arms and linkage, kick panels, center window seals, door felt, and the entire tail gate with defrost Glass all for a flat $80! Could not fit the tail gate in the car with the windshield but i am going back soon to pick it up. will also be buying the bumpers turn signal lenses and the grill from him for $20! Anything anyone wants?
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Here's my plan....

I want to see if I can get the windshield, side window gaskets if they are good, brake drums, and the side windows if I can get the pivot inserts out in one piece.

The windshield will be cut out of it's gasket to avoid damaging the glass upon removal, so the gasket will be junk (anything used is better than what's on brownie at the moment). I want to see if it has tan interior, if so, I want to get the dash cap if in good shape, the steering wheel, seats, and carpet from front to back, as well as some misc. interior parts to freshen up brownie! I will be offering him $80 for everything I pull off it since I plan to take A LOT of things. I will be bringing brownie with an empty cargo area and hopefully be returning with a full load of parts to sell to you guys and gals! :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

blupinto

Dave, can you grab the plastic inserts that the pop-out windows pivot from?
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

On Wednesday (April 28th) I will be going out to Caldwell here in Idaho to look at a 78 Pinto Wagon a guy is parting out. I'm going to get the windshield and cargo light panel, possibly the grill and center window gaskets to if they are in good shape.

If anyone needs anything, let me know. The car is just being parted out cause he is using the drive-train for a hot rod.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!