Mini Classifieds

78 hatchback

Date: 03/12/2023 06:50 pm
ford pinto door panels
Date: 03/20/2022 07:51 pm
Parts for 74 Squire Wagon
Date: 09/16/2019 07:35 pm
1974 Ford Pinto

Date: 10/16/2017 10:45 am
Need lower control arms for 1973 pinto
Date: 02/27/2017 10:10 pm
77 pinto cruz. wagon
Date: 06/15/2017 09:18 pm
Automatic Wagon
Date: 06/14/2019 11:22 pm
1973 Pinto Runabout

Date: 03/25/2019 09:02 pm
6.6.75 carrier
Date: 02/14/2018 06:47 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 628
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 477
  • Total: 477
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

never thought i would have a pinto

Started by Honchoman, December 03, 2004, 05:56:34 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Honchoman

the pump i bought was a universal electric pump, specifically for a carburator. how much pressure(at most) should a carb be getting?
                             ;D
by the way, thanks so much for all your help!!!
please keep it coming!!!!!

76tanna

A couple of suggestions. You can keep the fuel pump if you get a regulator.
  I had a 75 with a 2.3 and it jumped a tooth on the timing belt. It still idled fine but it would barely accelerate until about 25 mph. I've broken the belt on other pintos but that one just jumped a tooth. I had to really turn the distributor to get it to run but it didn't run right until I changed the belt and got the cam timing right. Good luck

Honchoman

i replaced all the fuel lines, tires(i even had some rims brought over from mexico), changed the oil and spark plugs, belts and hoses, all the basic stuff. im planning on rebuilding the carb on saturday, the only problem is the cars' location: i have some property about 20 miles north of town where i keep my vehicles. it is 5 acres, with 3 other plots on the street. one of the "neighbors" thought it would smooth out the road if they took all the rocks from the side of the road, and put them in the middle (the rocks are softball-sized, at smallest). i drive a '78 camaro that is lowered, and there is no freakin' way it could clear ANY of those rocks. i have a Jeep J-10, but the regisrtation is expired, so hope i can make it to the mvd early enough. i used to have a '73 4-door maverickw/ avacado green interior(the best part of the car), and i really miss the feel of that car. i get the same feeling sittin in my pinto...its great

BlueGoldPinto

Well there you go. When I was rebuilding an engine on a 2.3 I washed out and BLEW the carb the way I described above, letting it only sit for a few days in the parts washer (kerosine) replaced the gasket, let it dry, and it runs fine now, no problems whatsoever, so I have to say I dissagree on you there, based on my experiences, but who knows, I could've just been lucky....And running the engine rich for a little while won't hurt the engine as long as you don't leave it that way, just for a short while, in fact it might do it some good. And, I wouldn't give up on the sea foam, while you do have to replace your fuel pump as cheapracer said I would still get some Sea Foam if you can find it to clean out your carbon. Oh and about your points, unless someone as installed a pointless distributor on your car, just take off the distributor cap and their the little gold curved shaped thingys that spin around.
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

CHEAPRACER

And 9 lbs. of fuel pressure is too much for a stock carb.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

CHEAPRACER

If it's been parked for 12 years then flush the fuel tank, lines, new fuel filter, rebuild the carb by disassembling it and cleaning with carb dip and install new gaskets & parts, DO NOT blow into holes of a assembled carb with compressed air unless you plan on flattening your brass float (if it's brass). replace the points & condensor, rubber belt (s), hoses & lines, plugs & change oil. This will get you going good until your cooling system can also be redone. 12 year old cracked tires are also unsafe.

Running an engine rich will wash the lubrication from the walls and wear the rings and cylinder quickly. Very lean, hot mixtures burn valves.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

Honchoman

what about the points? does this car even have points? its a '74. if i soak the carb in parts washer or kerosene, will it destroy the gaskets?

BlueGoldPinto

Hmmm... good question.If your going into gears with no problem then thats how a Pinto tranny should work. But if you find it really querky and cranky into shifts then it might be a problem. My brothers Ranger (2.3 liter) had the clutch go on it and he didn't have any real accleration problems, just getting it into gear, so I don't think that thats the problem? Any suggestions anyone?
If your still thinking about rebuilding the carb, here's a slighty cheaper opt that might produce the same results if it is carbon build-up. Take out the carb, geta new intake-to-carb gasket, a soak the carb in parts washer or bucket full of kerosine a gas for a little while(about a day or so) then, get your hands on an air compressor and blow gun and give it a good blast and let it sit to dry a little while so we don't have any fires when you put it back on your car. Start it up, take it for a spin, and check your plugs, if there rich and black, clean them and check the gaps. Stick them back in a see how its going for you. In about a week check the plugs again and see how it looks.
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

Honchoman

just thinking, could the clutch have anything to do with making it feel so slow? acceleration is about what i would expect, but it is real hard to get it faster than 50 mph. so, can the condition of the clutch have anything to do with final speed?

BlueGoldPinto

It might,if the gasket was crappy enough. I would think that your fuel pump would be strong enough for your carb, but I've never had to replace mine so I really don't know. Part of that power loss should be due to all that excess carbon!!! I would get bottle of carb a choke a cleaner(additive and spray) and see what that does. Also there's this stuff called Sea Foam, it works great at cleaning the carbon out of old engines and freeing the valves and other moving internals out. In Ohio you can get it at most any parts store and costs $5 but I think it would be a good investment for your purpose.
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

Honchoman

it really purrs at idle. it smokes very little, (ive driven it maybe 2 miles when i first got it, and maybe 2 blocks since ive been working on it, so i figure there must be quite a bit of carbon buildup. from what i understood, the car had been parked for 12 years, with the engine being turned by hand once a year. i couldnt afford a mechanical fuel pump when i put the electric on (the electric was almost $50 cheaper), but i have the money now, but would still like to use the electric pump, if it is powerful enough. the choke isnt a problem, way too hot around here for it to even come on. i havent rebuilt the carb, but would that cause this major power loss?

BlueGoldPinto

This is just a guess, but it sounds wierd that your car idles perfectly but almost hesitates(stalls?) while driving. While it does sound like the carb isn't getting enough gas, trying ajusting the idler screw alittle bit to make it run a little rich, the go blow some carbon outta that engine(not to much just moderatly, almost like normal driving) for a little while, and stop and get out and see listen to the engine for anything considerably abnormal. Shut it off, start it up, let it idle a little bit and then stick it in drive, and see if it still hesitates. If it does, shut it off and take the air cleaner off and have someone else start the car for you while you look at the choke. See how far it opens and rev the engine a couple times while watching the choke. If the choke goes all the way open, then your getting way to much air and that could easily stall the engine, but if it is open to a "normal" positon, which is hard to say, about halfway?, then I don't know what the problem is.It still might be the fuel pump but try to rule out everything else before it comes down to replacing the high dollar stuff.
P.S. Don't let the car run rich to long, you could burn your valves up! ;)
My theory on the Gas Tank of the Ford Pinto:
If it ain't fixed, don't break it!! :)

Honchoman

Quote from: Poison Pinto on December 06, 2004, 05:17:11 PM
I have the 2.0L/4-speed/3.55:1 rear end in my pinto. I wouldn't say it's a burner, but it's not that slow, either. I'd say you've still got air/fuel issues.


i think that is where the problem lies. i've got some cash right now (hopefully, enough to get it on the road.) i made a bet with my dad----if i can have this car streetable soon, he will pay to have it painted. so im in a rush!!! the car idles perfectly. it almost hesitates when driving, and is also way slower than it should be, so i do believe i have air/fuel issues. i have a electric fuel pump, rated at 5-9 constant psi. is this enough for a carb? that is the only thing i can think of to make it run the way it does. can anyone suggest anything about the fuel pump? does it have enough pressure? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME

Honchoman

I was thinking about that. my cousin had an old capri w/ a 2.0. he said it was the same, and that little car was quick. like i posted earlier, i couldnt afford the mechanical fuel pump, so i installed an electric pump, rated at 5-9 psi. is this enough? the first pump i bought was rated at something like 2-5 psi. i'm pretty sure the carb could use a rebuild. according to my dad, the car has been parked 12+  years. i put new spark plugs, but i think i should replace the points(it has points, right?). i also have a problem with the drivers side door. the thumb button on the outside is missing, and the window wont roll all the way down. when you try to, it pops the door open. i haven had a chance yet to pull the panel off, but has anyone ever experienced anything like this?

Poison Pinto

I have the 2.0L/4-speed/3.55:1 rear end in my pinto. I wouldn't say it's a burner, but it's not that slow, either. I'd say you've still got air/fuel issues.
I left my Pinto in front of my house last night. This morning there were two more left with it.

crazyhorse

Welcome aboard ;D The 2.0l Ford motor has more hop up parts for it than most japaneese cars (except Hondas). so you can go from mild to wild with it.
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

Honchoman

this past summer, i traded the bed from a '76 dodge pickup for a '74 pinto. the guy i got it from said that only the starter was bad. i put a new starter in, and it wasnt getting any gas. i ended up replacing all the fuel lines and installing an electric fuel pump ($80 for a mechanical fuel pump?!?) well, school time came around and i havent had much of a chance to work on it. the paint is shot, the interior is shot, but it always starts up after 3 pumps. it had 4 different kinds of rims on it, with one on the front that rubbed the caliper. i tracked down a set of aluminum or magnesium rims (had them brought in from mexico). they look like '80s firebird formula rims. i took the car for a short cruise down the road, and boy, is it slow! my mom has had 3 different pintos throughout the '70s, and said that the cars are just like that. this one has the 2.0/4-speed. today was the last day of regular classes for me, so after finals week next week, i will be working hard on the pinto to get it 100% driveable before Christmas. i have one quick question: what is the quickest, cheapest, easiest way to improve acceleration in this car? it took about 10 sec. to hit 40mph. any advice appreciated!!!