Mini Classifieds

2 Pinto Wagons for Sale

Date: 10/29/2018 02:02 pm
1974 Pinto Drivers door glass and parts

Date: 02/28/2018 09:33 am
Wanted '75 Bobcat Instrument Cluster & Wiring Harness
Date: 12/09/2018 06:59 am
2.3 turbo intake (lower)

Date: 07/15/2020 09:29 pm
75 wagon need parts
Date: 05/28/2020 05:19 pm
Pinto Engines and engine parts
Date: 01/24/2017 12:36 pm
WTB: Ford Type 9 5spd Transmission
Date: 03/18/2020 01:30 am
Early Rare Small window hatch
Date: 08/16/2017 08:26 am
Lower Alternator bracket
Date: 08/26/2017 05:11 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 2,457
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 550
  • Total: 550
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

You traded what in for a Pinto?

Started by CHEAPRACER, March 11, 2010, 12:06:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

blupinto

Bigfoot, you should see him now. He's a little bruiser. lol.
One can never have too many Pintos!

Bigtimmay

Na id drive a vette! I still wanna buy a 69 stingray just so i can pull the v8 out and toss a 4cylinder in it. Vettes arent worthy enough to be called a GM product. hahaha
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

bigfoot

Quote from: blupinto on March 13, 2010, 10:18:11 PM

HEY! No swinging cats! lol. I'll send Rascal after you!
That kitty looks a long way from dead. :)
1976 runabout
1978 turbo
2000 electra-glide

pintowagon77

I have had luck with trading for Pintos.
1st Pinto I got for doing a 20x30 garage roof, it was an one owner blue 77 wagon 2.3 4speed.
2nd Pinto I traded a MSD chevy distributer I got for free, it was a 80 hatchback I drove then parted out.
3rd Pinto I traded a '85 Honda 250sx 3wheeler I also got for free. This Pinto is my daily driver, it's a orange 77 wagon came with a 8.8 rear end w/ 3.89 gears and a t-5wc tranny and nice wheels and tires. At the time I didn't have money to get the sweet 302 that was in it but have made payments $1200 total, only 2 1/2 months left! I talked him into putting the old hopped up 2.3 back in it for me though.
The sad part of my story is that I remember seeing a clean green 77/78 crusin wagon around town, apparently it was a friend of my mother who was the original owner who gave it away... " If I would have know, you could have had it." Bummer, she said it had 23k miles. Oh, pinto over vette any day, old muscle though...
Contact any time for info or parts.

71HANTO

Traded my wife's 74 Comet for a Brand NEW 80 real imitation wood side Pinto wagon. The Comet was a 302(2V) and pretty quick off the line but a death trap in the rain with drum brakes on all four corners (Discs should have been standard on the V8s-hello Ford not one of your "Better Ideas"). I then traded my Lotus Cortina vintage race project (after I rolled the first one) by twisted arm (from the wife, now ex) to buy my son's low mile 71 trunk model to turn into a vintage racer with a twist (race sanctioned Lotus powered). It's all good :lol:
71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

dga57

Quote from: 78txpony on March 13, 2010, 10:54:57 PM
Like trading the Queen Mary for a dinghy...

That big Galaxie was one heck of a sleeper!

You betcha'! :fastcar:

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

78txpony

Quote from: dga57 on March 13, 2010, 10:09:14 PM
 

I love Pintos, but let's face it... that's a HUGE step down! :rolleye:

Dwayne :smile:
Like trading the Queen Mary for a dinghy...

That big Galaxie was one heck of a sleeper!
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

dga57

Quote from: bigfoot on March 13, 2010, 10:14:15 PM
Let the ex keep the 03 vette, bought a couple pintos (one turbo) and never looked back. Got something that nobody else has. You cant swing a dead cat without hitting a vette nowadays.

I agree... I'd take a Pinto over a Corvette ANY day!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

Quote from: bigfoot on March 13, 2010, 10:14:15 PM
Let the ex keep the 03 vette, bought a couple pintos (one turbo) and never looked back. Got something that nobody else has. You cant swing a dead cat without hitting a vette nowadays.


HEY! No swinging cats! lol. I'll send Rascal after you!
One can never have too many Pintos!

bigfoot

Let the ex keep the 03 vette, bought a couple pintos (one turbo) and never looked back. Got something that nobody else has. You cant swing a dead cat without hitting a vette nowadays.
1976 runabout
1978 turbo
2000 electra-glide

dga57

Quote from: 78txpony on March 13, 2010, 03:15:47 PM
My mom traded in a 1970 Galaxie 500 4 door with a 429CJ engine for the
Pinto you see in my avitar.  She wanted something economical, and she got just that.
However, I am still mad at her........

I love Pintos, but let's face it... that's a HUGE step down! :rolleye:

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

78txpony

My mom traded in a 1970 Galaxie 500 4 door with a 429CJ engine for the
Pinto you see in my avitar.  She wanted something economical, and she got just that.
However, I am still mad at her........
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

Srt

Iwas just a couple years out of HS and traded in '55 Chevy 210 wagon with a hopped up 292 CI 6 banger for my 1st brand new car; a '71 Pinto
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

popbumper

Two comments:

1) What Jim said is EXACTLY what I thought before he posted. These cars WILL drive you nuts, especially when you are in at the level I am!

2) To Dwayne's point - we went on our honeymoon cruise back in 1993, and met a couple from Minnesota (who wer on their 10th anniversary). To this day we keep in touch, not as frequently as the past, but still do. Pretty neat how that works....

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

hellfirejim

What I traded in for my Pinto was my sanity. These little cars will drive you crazy with the Pinto addiction....   :lol:
It's a good day to be alive!
PCCA Pinto Number #385


71hotrodpinto

Back in 70 My dad  traded in his 69 Boss 302 for a Pinto Wagon. He used to street race the heck out of that thing against said 396 chevelles etc and had  pretty good success with it! 5.14 gears and cheater slicks mounted it was near unstoppable. Oh except for that darn piston skirt cracking issue. Was going to cost about $500 to have them replaced and so with Me coming on the way it was time to make a trade in......
Oh well !


95' 302,Forged Pistons,Polished rods
B303,1.7 Rockers,beehives
'68 port/polish heads                   
Coated Must II headers
Edelbrock Airgap
Holley570,Msd dist,CraneHI6
Mil

CHEAPRACER

Quote from: blupinto on March 11, 2010, 12:39:29 AM
Is this an invite to share trade stories? Because I have one...I traded my 2000 Rickenbacker 330 Fireglo and $100 for my '73 green wagon. I never regretted it, but I do miss my Ricky...


Absolutely, go for it.


Quote
Quote from: dga57 on March 11, 2010, 12:45:25 AM
Aren't cruises awesome?  Met some folks on a cruise to the Bahamas in 1987 who remain dear friends today.  If you measure all the people who have a Pinto story against those who don't, I think those with Pinto stories will win out!  That has been my experience!

Dwayne :smile:

And even though we were from three points of the U.S, we all had one thing in common.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

dga57

Aren't cruises awesome?  Met some folks on a cruise to the Bahamas in 1987 who remain dear friends today.  If you measure all the people who have a Pinto story against those who don't, I think those with Pinto stories will win out!  That has been my experience!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

Is this an invite to share trade stories? Because I have one...I traded my 2000 Rickenbacker 330 Fireglo and $100 for my '73 green wagon. I never regretted it, but I do miss my Ricky...
One can never have too many Pintos!

CHEAPRACER

My wife and I just got back from our first cruise of the Mexican Riviera and had a wonderful time. Our cruise consisted of assigned dining with the same couples at the same time throughout the trip so we got to know them very well. It was our last dinner together and we all decided to exchange emails. When upon telling mine, it included turbopinto in the address and brought up a whole new conversation by itself. One couple (he just turned 60)  told me how great his '68 Camaro SS396 was and all the street racing he did, when he was younger, until he had to trade it in for more economical Pinto. The other couple (late 60's) told me how she had a '68 GTO, which she could no longer afford to fill the tank, and also traded it in on a Pinto. They all loved their Pintos but really wished they had kept their muscle cars  and if they had only known the then what they would be worth today.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0