Mini Classifieds

78 Cruising Wagon at Mecum Chattanooga

Date: 09/02/2021 08:21 am
Front sump oil pan
Date: 01/02/2017 06:54 pm
1976-1980 A/C condensor

Date: 09/21/2020 10:43 pm
Front Body parts needed
Date: 02/09/2018 06:09 pm
1979 pinto
Date: 04/19/2018 02:02 am
72 Runabout Sprint Edition

Date: 04/25/2018 02:51 pm
Need Interior Panels
Date: 07/09/2018 04:59 pm
1974 Pinto Drivers door glass and parts

Date: 02/28/2018 09:33 am
78 pinto wagon

Date: 03/03/2020 01:07 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,292
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 523
  • Total: 523
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

won't start

Started by Last One, January 31, 2010, 04:45:09 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dga57

Quote from: blupinto on February 02, 2010, 10:03:21 PM
OK now I'm scared! lol.

If anyone can talk you through it, Becky... Jimmy can!!!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

OK now I'm scared! lol.
One can never have too many Pintos!

71pintoracer

Quote from: blupinto on January 31, 2010, 11:37:24 PM
Wow. I guess I had something else in mind. Thank you Kimmy! Are they hard to replace?
Becky, not hard to replace but there are some tricks of the trade! Also you should replace the condenser at the same time. It's that little round can looking thing on the side of the dist that has the terminal that the points wire hooks to. If your mechanic pal can't help let me know, I will try to guide you through it. Yep, from 3000 miles away!  :)
Oh yea, you need to reset the ignition timing as well after you get the points in.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

Last One

Quote from: beegle55 on January 31, 2010, 08:40:48 PM
Bum coil?
I was leaning toward the coil or the ignition control module. Will try a coil first.

Starsky and Hutch

Quote from: Last One on January 31, 2010, 04:45:09 PM
I have an '80 w/2.3 motor. Just put new spark plugs, dist. cap and rotor on. engine turns over, just won't fire off. Spark seems real weak at the plugs. Any help, suggestings, ideas of a fix. Thanks for the input.
Should add that about a month or so ago the daughter was driving the car. It was below freezing in the mornings. She went out started the car to let warm up, when she came back to the car it had died. She tried to start it and it wouldn't start again. Just now have tried to get it running again. The battery is new and has a full charge.



Did you put the wires back on right? is the coil wire good check it ,,,check  hole it plugs into in the coil make sure it`s clean
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

pintogirl

If you want to do something with the key on with motor not running, disconnect the coil wire! Either that or turn the key to ACC position if your car has one!!  ;D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

I'll ask mech/neighbor Jerry to help me! Thank you. I do have small fingers at least... ::)
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

I have done it before! The hardest part is getting them adjusted right! Small space and somewhat big hands, coupled with have to hold them apart to their correct gappage and tighning screw at same time! I prefer to have my hubby do it! LOL
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Wow. I guess I had something else in mind. Thank you Kimmy! Are they hard to replace?
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Ok, circled points in red!

Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

OK I'm stupid. Kimmy, get your red arrow out and point to the points! lol.
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Ok, I found a pic of a top view of the distributor. you can see the points!! The points are on the top right of the pictured distributor! It is a VW distributor but they are basically the same!

Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Thank you. That'll be tomorrow's project. :D
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Yes, just unclip and make sure you put it back on the same way!

I will try to take pics tomorrow. The points are the thing that rubs on the center of the distributor's rod under the rotor!
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Duh. I meant distributor. lol. Guess I have alternators on the brain...

Yes please take a pic of early Pinto (2000 cc) engine distributor points. Thank you.


That kind of sounds like mine. Jerry the mech-neighbor said it "sounds" like Meanie's running on three cylinders. She rattles a lot but I chalked that up to her being an old car.  She has new spark plugs but points are a mystery to me.  I can just flip the clips and pull the top part of the distributor off without messing with the timing right?
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Quote from: blupinto on January 31, 2010, 09:37:20 PM
Kimmy, when you say it runs terrible, are you meaning it lacks power? Or it shakes? My mechanic-neighbor suggested I change the points but all I hear is banana banana banana. I asked for a clue in The Flying Avocado thread but no one came forward with a clue for me.  :-\  Can you take a picture of an alternator's points? If I knew what they were I've forgotten. It might be why Wildfire suddenly ran like you-know-what. Sorry. I didn't mean to hijack this thread but it's possibly a similar situation to Meanie's.

Becky, don't know if you said alternator and mine distributor or not, but points are in the distributor. Did you want me to take a pic of the points in Distributor?

I would say it felt like the car wanted to die at the lights. I would keep the gas on it while having it in nutrual, once the light turned green, I would let up on the throttle switch into drive and go, once giving it gas, it seemed to go but not as powerful as with good points! Didn't really make a noise!

Hope that helps?
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

blupinto

Kimmy, when you say it runs terrible, are you meaning it lacks power? Or it shakes? My mechanic-neighbor suggested I change the points but all I hear is banana banana banana. I asked for a clue in The Flying Avocado thread but no one came forward with a clue for me.  :-\  Can you take a picture of an alternator's points? If I knew what they were I've forgotten. It might be why Wildfire suddenly ran like you-know-what. Sorry. I didn't mean to hijack this thread but it's possibly a similar situation to Meanie's.
One can never have too many Pintos!

pintogirl

Did you change the points (if it has them)? I know if you leave the key on the on position with out it running, it will burn the points together. That happened to my car, although it started and ran, it suddenly it started running terrible. We change the points and all is well.

Maybe your points are burnt to bad to let it start?
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

beegle55

2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

blupinto

One can never have too many Pintos!

Last One

I have an '80 w/2.3 motor. Just put new spark plugs, dist. cap and rotor on. engine turns over, just won't fire off. Spark seems real weak at the plugs. Any help, suggestings, ideas of a fix. Thanks for the input.
Should add that about a month or so ago the daughter was driving the car. It was below freezing in the mornings. She went out started the car to let warm up, when she came back to the car it had died. She tried to start it and it wouldn't start again. Just now have tried to get it running again. The battery is new and has a full charge.