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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Need input on rims

Started by 80bobcat, July 13, 2009, 11:45:42 PM

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80bobcat

Tom... both those rims look good!! and the wagon  :hypno:  nice!! and the more info we get the better for our group ..so thanks for the input
And now the search for tires is on.......lol
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

Wittsend

Hi 80 Bobcat,
   I was just letting anyone who might have them (lots of Turbo Coupes as donor cars around this group) that the 16" wheels fit my 1973 wagon. They were essentially "free" and that is why I used them.

I never remember the wheel itself being an issue. Perhaps it was close but I was just focused on the tire rub???

Frankly, The 16" Turbo Coupe wheels looked too hugh by my account.  That is why they were temporary.  But, we each have our own tastes. I've included pics of the Turbo Coupe 16"s and the "who knows what brand" 15"s I've had on the car.  Both tires are 225-60.  If I ever go back to the 15"s from the current 13" Mustang II wheels I'd go smaller 205-60-15"

Tom

80bobcat

Not to argue..Whitt....but you`re refering to the tire size rubbing  and not the rim  as for the 7" wide rims.. they did go on and they did clear but there was no forgiving.. any flex at all..and they would hit.. they were the better of the 2 styles I looked at ..but being burned once I shyed away from them..again I stress I`m no expert but 6" with the proper backspace(thanks cossie..3 1/2") is were I would go..imho
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

Wittsend

FYI -

  I used the wheels off my 1988 Turbo Coupe on a temporary basis. They are 225-60-16".  There were a few points on the lower front wheel well where they rubbed.  Slight bending with pliers took care of that.

On the rear I had to use spacers (Shhhh - they were actually washers - use at your own risk) to space the tires off the leaf spring.

The wheels/tires you see in my picture are also from a mid 80's Thunderbird. In this case 225-60-15".  No rub or clearance issues anywhere. I don't know the manufacture.  As a side note, they came from the wrecking yard.  I was thrilled because the tires had about 2/3rds of the tread left.  That was until I found out that they had visually undetectable flat spots.  But sure enough I put them on the car and it was like a kiddy roller coaster. So, buyer beware.

Not pictured are the 175-70-13" tire on Mustang II wheels I am running now.

Tom

popbumper

So if I am reading you correctly, a 14 x 7 rim is not a good idea? I was going to look at some American Racing rims but if I am going to have clearance problems, no dice. Any confirmation?

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

80bobcat

Success!!!! Thanks everyone... from all the info I got from here and talking to people.. I think that those fox bodied rims as long as they`re no wider than 6" will fit our Pinto`s.. here is what I found and purchased.. they`ll shine up real nice..14"X 6" clears everything in the front end


Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

Carolina Boy

I used the Ford Fairmont rims, 14X6 with trim rings and chrome nuts.
If you want a stock look, go to Summit racing and check Wheel Vintiques . They have all sizes and back spacing.
If life gives you a lemon, squeeze it in your moonshine and buy a Pinto.

72Wagon

I have read this thread and many others that were similar, WHAT WHEELS WILL FIT MY PINTO??. I would like to see a thread on people who can HONESTLY state what fit on there PINTO. Such as on my 19-- Pinto Seadan/ Wagon I have mounted these "manufacturer" wheels of this size (complete specs) and have mounted on them this size tire (front/ rear). Also they MUST state what if any modications were required..
Alot of us Pinto owners have wasted a lot of time, money, and lost hair  ??? on trying to get rid of the 13 inch wheels that offer no tire choices these days.
1972 Wagon
2.0 (not stock), 4 Speed with Hurst shifter and roll control, Holley 390 4bbl, Spearco intake, MSD Ignition. 8 inch rearend 3.55 gears, custom dash and interior.

dholvrsn

I'm perplexed too. I also have Fox-tang turbine rims that scrape, but I've also seen photos of Pintos running with them.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

80bobcat

I don`t understand it?? I just got back from trying out 15" turbine rims that were supposed to of come off an `88 cougar..hit the top of the arm so bad that you couldn`t spin the wheel..1/4" spacers were of no help??(and I`ve read they`re not really safe to use) is there something I`m missing? Do those using upsized rims using specific widths..say a 5"or 6" as opossed to a 7"? should I do a 5 lug conversion on the fronts? Most of the boneyards have sent their older rims out for scrap and fox body rims are getting harder to find...like an 80`s style car is old??? geeesh!!  :surprised:
Well thanks for listening and any further input is welcomed..tia
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

80bobcat

Update..well actually a non update...I will definately be going the boneyard route..some changes at work and I`m trying to snag a buyout pkg...so retirement beckons and that`ll leave me time to search the yards...but.... I will still be using this thread as my most useful info...just with the adjustment in income etc etc..I may have to wait untill the fall...again keep the info comming...thanks all
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

chrisf1219

hi i found some ten hole aluimunium wheels of a 884lug tbird that fit great some cleanihg ant whereready forf my 77 wagon215 14 60 on front tires and 2456014 on rear will give it a nace rack to itthere on my 77 blue wagon with flamers.go luck  chris in ca. :hypno:
77 wagon auto 2.3  wagons are the best and who knew I like flames on a pinto!!!!

80bobcat

Gonna go the boneyard route....retirement is upcoming..should give me plenty of time..thanks for all the input
Vito
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

80bobcat

Its all good info Disco... everything helps  I was just relating my experience with those rims.. btw I really liked the look it gave the car.
much appreciated `75
Vito
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

discolives78

Reed had the same problem with the "hurricane" style GT rims (circa 1987-90) on the front of an early model. that's now larjohnson's car--he went back to stock 13's. My car has American Racing Outlaw 14x6.5's off a boneyard fox. No clearance issues, but I have 185/60r14's on the front.

Just trying to help! :embarrassed:

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

75bobcatv6

Im betting the Offset on that Stang wasn't ok with what you needed on your car. Ive got 80's Centerlines from a Junkyard, back space is good on them for the car. Not sure what it is but when i have them off next ill look. (they came off a 1985  Fox body Mustang.)

80bobcat

Thanks all...
Not to be doubting your info and I am thankful .. but I once got 15" 10 hole rims off a stang being parted out(i forget what year..but I was assured by an expert they would fit) and the fronts scraped all the way home..I luckily had 2 14" rims at home and switched them..but it was a loud and embarasing 30 mile ride home and with my money spent I kept the mismatched wheels..but that was the Pinto (gone) now its the Bobcat sort of why I`m looking into new ones...its that offset and backspace that is keeping me out of the local yards..I do put mustang 2 in my search but most places don`t list them either.
cossie..I got caught up in your project posts.. nice ..real nice!! 
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

discolives78

You might have some luck looking for wheels for a 79-93 Mustang, they have the same bolt pattern, and were available with 14" and 15" wheels. Many wheels (both stock and aftermarket) were available for these cars. Same goes for 80's T-birds. Hope that helps some!

Chuck


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

cossiepinto

One more note about these pics (It's getting late and I'm forgetting stuff!):  Notice that the suspension is at full droop, with those jack stands under the chassis, not the suspension. Fully loaded the wheels will certainly move a couple of inches farther into the fender wells.

I hope that helps.  Let me know here if you have any other questions.

Paul

cossiepinto

Sorry, I looked at the "Cosworth Pinto Update" posting and saw you couldn't really tell how the wheels filled up the fender wells, so here are a couple of pics I just took to give you a better perspective.

Paul

cossiepinto

I agree.  That's why I chose 15-inchers for my wheels too.  You can see the rear wheel mounted (no tire) on a picture I posted under "your project" a few weeks back, called "Cosworth Pinto Update".  The wheel is a Minilite from England, 15x7/4 on 4.25 lug-stock Pinto/3 13/16 backspace (5/16 more negative offset than zero)/2.5-inch center hole.  I think it will fill the fender nicely with 225/50 tires.

Although there are more 16-inch tires available, I was afraid the low profile tire I'd have to use would look like rubber bands instead of tires!  Either that or I'd gain ride height by using a 50-series tire.

80bobcat

Thanks Paul... that`ll help me cut to the chase.. so I could reduce the offset to "0" (.39=10 mm) as long as the other parameters match? If so that should open up more choices.
Yes thats my plan ..to fill the wheel wells..but I`m afraid the 16" tires would look like rubber bands on rims..nice if you like it but not whatI want.
I`ll wait for others who`ve gone this route to chime in..maybe get more ideas on wheel models and part numbers on proven rims for an `80
Vito
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

cossiepinto

80bobcat,

I went through the same experience you are going through, looking at sites like Tire Rack for Pinto wheel/tire combos.  They don't list wheels other than "stock" sizes when you search for wheels for Pintos: 13x5, 4 on 4.25 bolt circle, etc. So, you probably have discovered the choices are limited and no info is available for larger-than-stock wheels for this car.

I ordered wheels by width, offset, bolt circle, and center hole, with the maximum backspacing I thought I could fit under the car (actually the rear is a bit more restricted, because you can fit a 14" or 15" wheel over the front a-arms with little problem.

I wanted all four wheels to be the same, so I wound up with 15x7, 3 13/16ths backspacing (the minimum size available for that brand wheel--Minilites).  Had I been willing to order two sizes of wheels, I could have ordered backspacing for the fronts in the 4-inch range.

I'd say that a good size for you will be 15x7 or 16x7 with zero offset (3.5" backspacing or a little more, but no more than 3.75"), using the 4 on 4.25" bolt pattern and 2.5" center hole.  You'll have better luck finding 16" tires, but I plan to use 205/50-15s on the front and 225/50-15s on the rear.  (Actually, I'm going to try the 225s on the front first as I mount them, and if they fit, I'll use 225s all around.)

You'll probably get plenty of other opinions from members here, so I'd advise that you carefully heed them all, especially those who have tires on their cars already.  Your car will look great with 15-16s on it filling up the fender wells.  Good luck!

Paul (Cossiepinto)

80bobcat

I`ve also researched Mustang11 forums and came up with 2 offsets..one at .39 and the other at .62...why is that, anybody know? then there is the backspacing part??  geesh the more I research the more confusing it gets.
  The reason I`m posting this is with all the searching I`ve done people are stating what size they have on the car and not specifying what was OEM size was and thats what I think they want in the calculators....probably more choices in Detroit but I still don`t have my passport and we`re a small market here.. sorry for my rant.. its now over...well thanks for listening.
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?

80bobcat

Hi all.. need advice on rims for an`80 bobcat hatch... I want to go to 15" or 16" rims and was wondering what rims and tire combo`s are available.. most if not all wheel calculators ask for stock rim and tires ..my door jamb placard is gone......any and all input is welcome and appreciated....tia
Vito
Look Officer..it`s a Pinto would YOU stop short?