Mini Classifieds

I have a 1977 Cobra body lots of parts here
Date: 04/12/2017 06:57 pm
Intake manifolds

Date: 03/06/2021 03:04 pm
Ford 2.3 Bellhousing C4/C5 & Torque Converter

Date: 07/08/2022 11:51 pm
1978 PINTO PONY FOR SALE 17,000 ORIGINAL MILES !!!!!!!
Date: 10/10/2019 10:02 pm
71-73 Pinto Parts

Date: 06/06/2019 10:47 am
WTB: Ford Type 9 5spd Transmission
Date: 03/18/2020 01:30 am
1971-74 Various Pinto Parts
Date: 01/18/2020 03:44 pm
2.3/C-4 torque converter needed
Date: 02/08/2018 02:26 pm
79 pinto small parts
Date: 04/24/2019 03:16 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 2,670
  • Online ever: 2,670 (Today at 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 569
  • Total: 569
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

After 22 years away, I am finally back in Pintoland...

Started by Alrobot, February 04, 2009, 06:39:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Alrobot

Not a whole lot of progress, got the motor out of the boat that is going into it, and I have been cleaning out the inside slowly but surely. Kids Softball and Baseball is over for the season, so hopefully I can get out to it soon with them.

Al...

popbumper

Hey Alrobot:

  Any progress on your efforts? Been a few months, hopefully you are making progress.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

pintoguy77

Hey Arlobot,i feel the same way you do. Im a pinto oldtimer too and the last pinto i had before the one i boutht 3 yrs ago was back in 83.I kind of gave up on them for 20 some years cuz everyone made fun of them but never forgot how much fun they are.Im restoring a 77 hatchback to make it look like my first car.It was a 78 sedan.Brand new pinto right off the showroom floor for 3700 bucks.Ive always wanted another one and finally i got one.Ill never sell this one.

Alrobot

Possible missunderstanding... I am De-Squiring the Wagon, not letting it go. Sorry for that. It is in pretty rough shape, but I think I'm up for the challenge. And thanks for the welcomes back, its good to know there is still a community for Pinto Guys and Girls out there.

Al...

discolives78

 :welcome: :welcome: :welcome: Back to Pintoland!

:welcome: To the club too!

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

lesterwa58

I am looking for a 74-80 Pinto Squire or Cruiser with the 2.3 engine & preferably with the manual transmission, this car has to be in very good shape, both on the exterior and the interior, and in the western United States.  I attempted to buy a Cruiser from a guy who advertised one for sale in Texas, but he backed out, for the second time.  This really upsets me for if one advertises they should be willing to sell.  Wes at: lesterwa58@yahoo.com

blupinto

 :'( sniff... one less yellow Pinto out here? Waaaaaaa! LOL! I'm still glad you saverd the girls! If I only had room and money... sigh.
One can never have too many Pintos!

Alrobot

The Squire has to go. It is set up for a stick right now, Either way I have to buy a trans, so I might stick with a stick. Of course an Auto would be easier to drive, but not as fun. I am pretty sure the yellowish color will go away, I am partial to Blue, I really like the Vista Blue on the new Mustangs. I am sure once I pick them up we can work something out on the door panels.

Al...

blupinto

I'm just glad you're saving them! ;D Though I am sorry to see the wagon de-squired. Oh well. I'll be happy to take the inner door panels if they're up for grabs. Reuben was asking $20 per panel- $40 for both.

        Is the wagon still gonna be that gorgeous yellow-gold?  ;) Will you put an automatic in her?
One can never have too many Pintos!

Alrobot

I would have to agree that the wagon was certainly worse for wear on the inside. I am a "wagon guy" though and I have wanted a V8 Pinto Wagon since I sold Pinto #2 when I went in the navy. I hate to tell you though, I am betting it won't be a squire when I'm done. Sorry Blupinto. I am probably going to redo the door panels and stuff like that, my Mom and Daughter are pretty handy with vinyl and a sewing machine, and since it might actually become my Daughters car one day, I will capitalize on that. The Blue Runabout is pretty complete the trunk area was pretty thrased though, I will probably be parting it out on here after I get the parts I think I need.

Al...

beegle55

The wagon looks pretty sad but is still yet begging for a resto. The blue Pinto looks very solid and restorable. Whatever you plans are for these two good luck and  :welcome: to our awesome Pinto community.  ;D

   -beegle55
2005 Jeep GC 5.7 HEMI
1993 Ford Mustang
1991 Ford Mustang GT
1988 Ford Mustang
1980 Ford Pinto Cruising- Mint, Fully documented
1979 Ford Pinto Trunk- 2.3L 4 speed
1978 Ford Pinto HB- 302 drag car
1976 Ford Pinto Runabout- 40,000 mi, V6
1972 Ford Maverick Grabber (real)
1970 Ford Mustang 302

dga57

 :welcome:  Alrobot!

Isn't it funnyhow us "old-timers" keep coming back to our beloved Pintos?  I was Pinto-less for 32 years before latching onto my '72 sedan last January.
It looks like you have your work cut out for you, but it should be lots of fun!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

I'd still love the door panels, but don't you want to keep them in the car? If you don't let's talk! I worked in Monrovia in '98-'99. Did Reuben deliver the cars? The blue Runabout didn't look too bad, but if money were no object the yellow wagon would've come home with me! I so love that color combo! ;D Enjoy!
One can never have too many Pintos!

Alrobot

I look forward to getting my hands dirty on a pinto again. I told my daughter it was for her, we'll see, she's 12. Of course I will have to play with it once I fix it up to make sure its up to my standards. I hear someone is manufacturing those window clips, and of course this also gives me an excuse to spend some time at our local junkyards. I am in La Verne, let me know if you are still interested in the door panels, I'm sure we can work something out.

Al...

blupinto

 :welcome: :welcome: Alrobot!

         I am familiar with those two Pintos: I wanted to buy the door panels and mourned the state of the wagon (I have a weakness for yellow Squires! I am so glad you bought them from Reuben. I despaired of them going to Pick-a-part. Thank you for wanting to restore them! The wagon is gonna need a lot of TLC. I'm going to apologize now- I'm sorry about the pop-out window. I was desperate for the hinge fittings.
One can never have too many Pintos!

Alrobot

My first car in High School was a Pale Yellow 73 Wagon, 2.0L, 4spd, Brown Vinyl Int. I sold her when a fan blade broke off while getting on the freeway, took the whole front part of the engine and put it in the radiator. I figured I would get a beat up pinto and change the engine, well half was right, my step-dad said, " your not changing an engine in my driveway", so off the wagon went to Pick-a-Part. Anyhow, enough back story, I found on Craigslist, 2-1973 Pinto's for sale, one Squire Wagon, one Runabout. Emails were sent, pictures exchanged, one trip to his place and $150 later they were mine. Granted they are in ROUGH shape, I believe I can get the wagon in respectable shape within a year. Neither one has an engine or trans, this is okay because I have a 5.0 from a parted out 91 Mustang in my garage waiting for a home. I will be looking diligently for V8 conversion parts, so if you have any left over or unused please shoot me a line and let me know what you have. I try to get a picture up, hopefully I can make it work. I look forward to working with my Pinto brethren once again.

Al...