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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

1974 Pinto at auction 11,326 original miles

Started by FlyerPinto, July 18, 2008, 06:20:09 PM

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orangekrush

that would be funny as hell. i also own a pretty low mileage pinto my orange 78 only has 78k on the ticker. got it from an older guy that didnt want to sell it, he was the 1st owner. he was behind on his mortgage and i just happened to have money. so it came home with me last july. ive only put a couple hundred miles om it since i bought it. i keep it polished and take it to cruises on the weekend, in the summer time. but ive never taken it too far. longest trip was from prineville to bend and back. about 85 miles round trip.drove like a dream. i say enjoy your new car and keep it nice but drive it. that is after all what cars were made for!
lifes too short to drive a boring ride!

oldcarpierre

Guys,

This is my first login on the site since the summer of 2008.  What a year it has been.  That is a story for another day.

I have been reading the unread posts since my last login from the bottom. 

When I bought my Pinto, I did not know at the time that some of you had been able to get Ford USA to install the kit for free 25-30 years after the fact.  My Ford dealer installed the kit for me (which I had purchased at Green Sales), but Ford Canada would not pick up the tab. I had to pay a couple of hundred dollars.  Had I known then what I know now, I would have leaned harder on Ford Canada.

Pierre
1974 Medium Lime Yellow Pinto Sedan
14000 Miles - Unrestored Original in the garage
2013 Ford Taurus out in the rain

jimspinto

Quote from: 75bobcatv6 on July 27, 2008, 07:16:02 PM
Other than the Smell it sounds like a really nice car. One way to get the smell out, is with Home carpet pet and odor remover(shampoo) with about 1 Table spoon of Oxyclean, Not too much so you dont cause the color to come out of the carpet but it does work well with killing odors as well as getting stains out. I would recommend Rug doctor's pet and Stain remover. =) never know what was living in there

   After all the washing, shampooing, odor remover and etc. has been done (and maybe failed)   Go to "Wal mart"  They sell (in the R.V. dept.) an "Oder Absorbing Gel"  Comes in a 14 oz container.  White with orange letting and a blue top.  Sells for about $4.00.  Comes in a smaller container, but the "14 oz." cost so little, its hardly worth it to purchase it.

   Been there, done that !  Damm mice got into a car, built nest(s) in places that man cant get to.  Found this product to be very helpful

  Also, when you dont have a "smell-problem" you could put it into the car anyway, has a nice "citrus" smell.
  After a few days, you cant even smell , unless you open the lid and stir it a bit.
  When you do have a problem (as above) take a small amount and push it into the heater box or vents.  With the blower help, you can over power the smell.
  The cost is so little, you could put two (or as needed) into a car when theres a problem and one (every spring) when there isn't

   I'v kept one in the bathroom for sometime now,  There cheep and they work, just replace them every 90 days or so (for best results)

  If you need a better explantion of the product, PM me, or ask here,,,,,,, Jim at jimspinto







FlyerPinto

I'm going to try my dealer tomorrow. I forgot about it today, in the midst of my normal fun work day. But I did get out and get plates for the 74 so I can get her down to the shop and not get hassled by the long arm of the law.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

phils toys

FlyerPinto
My wife would not ride in my Pinto until I could convince her it had the gas tank modification installed. I was lucky enough to have a Ford dealer who located the recall parts in another state, acquired them and installed them on my car.....warran ty work on a 30 year old Pinto!

The easiest way to tell if the kit has been installed is the addition of a plastic shield in front of the gas tank, between it and the rear end. It is very noticeable if it is there.

Hope this helps.

Dave
Original74

"Recall Campaign 293".   
Before I purchased the Pinto, I was able to secure two N.O.S. recall kits for the fuel tank recall from Green Sales in Cincinnati; one to put on the car, and the other one to show.   As soon as I got home with it, my local Ford dealer
installed the kit for me.
oldcarpierre

here are someother people who had a kit installed under warrenty.
philstoys
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

ADaughen

Heck, I went into my dealership with my '78 in '99 and they didn't have the "dealer only part" I needed.
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

75bobcatv6

you have to post what they say when you take it in lol i want to see it. and their faces!!!!!!

FlyerPinto

Yeah, that would be pretty good. The guys at my Ford dealer think I've lost my mind as it is anyway. In one year my wife and I bought a new E-150 van, a new F-150, a used F-150 and a used Ranger from them, and I've been taking my Pinto Cruising Wagon and Mustang II in for some work. Just recently I tried to get them to donate a car to the foster care agency where I work...they looked at me like I was from another planet. So when I take this Pinto in and ask for warranty work (which I think is a wonderful idea!) they are liable to flip their lids!
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

ADaughen

Quote from: pintoman on July 28, 2008, 05:07:37 PM
When you get it running take it to your nearest Ford dealer.They might be able to get the update for the tank,and it  might be under warranty.


LOL!

I want to be there for THAT.

"A what?  For warranty work?"
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

pintoman

When you get it running take it to your nearest Ford dealer.They might be able to get the update for the tank,and it  might be under warranty.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

FlyerPinto

She's looking to be a keeper. I don't think I'll drive it all that much, but I don't really know. Having discovered the car wasn't taken in for the recall regarding the gas tank circumstance I don't know how best to proceed, so I guess I'll just take a wait and see attitude, unless someone can tell me how to fix it. I appreciate the suggestions on the odor issue as well. I'm not sure what to try first but I'll get it running and then go to the next step. More to come later.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

gordie

A big part of the value of your new Pinto will be its' low mileage and I would not recommend making it a daily driver.  I have a low mileage Pinto too and regretfully don't drive it as I do not want to add any miles.  I am looking for a driver as it is no fun to not take the car out and enjoy it and to just keep it in the garage.  They do not make low mileage Pintos any more so cherish yours.  You are very lucky to have found it.

FlyerPinto

The original owners granddaughter delivered the Retail Buyers Order, sales slip and stub from the bank check used to pay for the car. The buyers order is dated 7-1-74 and lists the car as follows:

2300cc
Cruise o Matic
WSW
Air Cond
Accent Group
Tinted glass comp
Bumper group
Disc brakes

and a note under shop installed that says, "Remove Radio".

The selling price is $3457 plus tax of $155.46 and filing fee of $10.50 for a total of $3622.96.

I've decided to take the car to my friends' shop and let him bring the engine back to life. Having sat that long I don't know what I would encounter, and he can probably knock it out in a day.

I would love to take this little beasty to a show when she's ready, I think it will be really impressive. This time I think I will trailer it though. Drop me a line Adam and if you want to run up and take a peek you're more than welcome to do so. I'll get back to you all later.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

ADaughen

Awesome!

If you need a hand let me know.  I'm just down the road.

Adam

PS
You KNOW you have to get that to Carlisle.   ;) ;D
'78 Cruisin' Wagon

phils toys

FlyerPinto,
Congrats on the new  car. Sounds like   another fun project.
phils toys
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

75bobcatv6

Other than the Smell it sounds like a really nice car. One way to get the smell out, is with Home carpet pet and odor remover(shampoo) with about 1 Table spoon of Oxyclean, Not too much so you dont cause the color to come out of the carpet but it does work well with killing odors as well as getting stains out. I would recommend Rug doctor's pet and Stain remover. =) never know what was living in there

gordie

Thanks for the great information on this car that we were all curious about.  I hope it runs good for you.  It should be a winner!

FlyerPinto

First reports from the Pinto. The car was stored in a barn, not a garage, a barn. Which makes a huge difference when it comes to the smell which emanates from the car, and this car reeks of barn. At the auction the car had been somewhat washed, but it was still pretty messy. That fact encouraged me because I was afraid if the car was truly impressive I would get outbid in a hurry. The paint is a robins egg blue, though I don't know if Ford had any specific name for it at the time, other than light blue. The interior is blue carpet with blue vinyl seats that have what looks to be a lariat emblem on the back of the front seats. All the Pinto emblems are intact and have the red, white and blue striping within the capital "P". The original whitewall tires are still on the car with chrome wheel covers, though at the moment I can't give a better description of them. The car has the 2300cc engine, an automatic transmission, factory air conditioning and the radio delete option. The black metal plate that matches the contour of the dash is still in place where the radio would have been installed. The carpet is good, the seats are great, the dash pad is blue and uncracked. All electrical items are working, headlights, tail lights, flashers, horn, turn signals, brake lights, dash lights, and the foot pedal switch for the high beams. The body is almost flawless, other than a ding on the right rear fender lip where the owner apparently clipped the barn door, and there is a smaller yet eerily similar ding on the drivers side rear fender lip. The rear hatch won't stay up as the pneumatic supports have lost their strength, and the drivers side door won't open from the outside for some reason, though I suspect it has to do with the door looking slightly out of alignment. There are holes on either side of the headliner above the sunvisors where small furry rodents have been. The plastic rods the sunvisors are on are fine, as are the plastic interior panels in the footwells. Under the hood is a mess. I've dug out walnuts, wood shavings, fur, and any other kind of nonsense that can crawl into an engine compartment from a barn. I used my shopvac on it today to clean out all I could, and then turned the blower on it to clean out some more. I took off the air cleaner and found what has to be the original air filter. The air cleaner itself was filthy on the outside, but inside was showroom clean. The belts and hoses all look surprisingly good, and all of the rubber seals around the car are fine.

Right now the biggest challenge will be getting it to fire. I put a new battery in this morning when I picked it up, and though it cranks it won't fire. As a result we towed it home and had no trouble at all with it during the trip, which was about ten miles or so. I'm hitting the auto parts store for some goodies, and I'm trying to get an old acquaintance of mine to come and take a peak at it. He was a Ford mechanic for years at the local dealership so he might be a good resource. The only other problem with the car is the smell, and it is really awful. The carpet is pristine, but it reeks. Any ideas on how to handle this?

Incidentally, before they started the auction for the car the auctioneer asked if there were any questions about the car. I asked if it had been taken to a dealer for the recall regarding the fuel tank (I had looked under the car and didn't see the plastic insert that did the job) and as far as the auctioneer and the family knew, the car had not been taken in. I might have put off a couple of prospective buyers with that question, but that was the idea and I got the car, so it might have helped.

My wife and I washed the car and have been busy going over the exterior with fine scrubbers to get what can only be described as a film, not to mention tar and bugs, off the car. It is starting to really look sharp. I'll post pictures when I bring the digital camera home.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

Smeed

Quote from: FlyerPinto on July 26, 2008, 04:02:11 PM
It's official...I got the Pinto! Only one other person besides myself was bidding on the car and she backed out; I'll pick up the car tomorrow.  :lol:
As soon as I'm able I will post photos and a full description of the car.

:o Pictures! Thats great. Have fun with that car!

'73 runabout

gordie

Congratulations!  You got a winner!  We hope to hear all about it soon.

FlyerPinto

It's official...I got the Pinto! Only one other person besides myself was bidding on the car and she backed out; I'll pick up the car tomorrow.  :lol:
As soon as I'm able I will post photos and a full description of the car.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

gordie

At a major auction it could bring in the $10,000 range but this car has had some alterations and who knows?  I hope you can get a good buy, it is a great car regardless.  Good luck and let us know how it went.

FlyerPinto

Well, I'm going and I'm taking the checkbook. I don't know what it will go for, I don't have a clue in the world. Does anyone have any idea what to expect?
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

gordie

I hope someone goes to the auction.  It would be interesting to see what a car like that will bring although there may be few buyers at a small local auction.  Maybe you can make a great buy!

Smeed

You can click "View Photo Gallery" but the pictures are still really small and aren't very good quality to start with :(

'73 runabout

FlyerPinto

This is the listing for a 1974 Ford Pinto Runabout going up for auction in Tipp City, Ohio on July 26. The car has 11,326 original miles and is in great condition, body and inside, according to the ad. The photos seem to back that up. The car was last licensed in 1991 and was only driven from Tipp City to Troy and back, a distance of as much as 7 to 10 miles one way. If anyone is interested in bidding on this at auction, let me know, cause I might go to the auction just to see it. Tipp City is all of 10 minutes from my house.

    http://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/473953.html

http://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/473953.html

I don't know why this isn't working as a hyperlink..the web address is correct. The auctioneer is Larry Lavender of Troy, Ohio. Get in touch with me and let me know if you're coming this way. She sounds and looks like a real beauty.


1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...