Mini Classifieds

73 Runabout

Date: 11/20/2017 03:19 pm
2 Pinto Wagons for Sale

Date: 10/29/2018 02:02 pm
1971 2.0 valve cover
Date: 01/25/2019 07:09 pm
Custom Pinto Project

Date: 06/12/2016 07:37 pm
1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:55 pm
parting out 1975 & 80 pintos
Date: 08/24/2018 02:50 pm
73 actuator for heater blend door
Date: 09/19/2019 04:43 pm
Need '75 Pinto wagon front seat belt assembly housing
Date: 10/03/2018 10:46 pm
(3) 1980 Ford Pinto Station Wagon Projects

Date: 03/15/2023 02:16 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,582
  • Total Topics: 16,269
  • Online today: 2,558
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 131
  • Total: 131
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Long time lurker, just got my first so here to say Hello!

Started by Stugots, August 10, 2009, 05:26:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dga57

I'm a big fan of the dog dish hub caps with beauty rings too - that's what my '74 had on it new, and it's what my '72 has now.  Looks particularly nice with whitewalls.

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Stugots

Yep the problem was the Rag Joint...or rather...lack of.  I replaced it on Monday, drives much better now, tune up this week.

I've been thinking of keeping it stock, it will defenitly be stock looking if I go the turbo route.  Problem is, that there are some worry spots under the car.  Will probably need some welding done to the jacking points (one is really weak).  There is no holes in the floors, but I suspect it really does have what the odometer says (22500ish miles) and really has sat for a long time.

The guy I bought it from tells this story:  It was originally a Michigan car.  An elderly couple bought it new, he drove, she didn't.  He passed away, and it sat.  Her neighbor took care of her, and he was a car guy, always fixing up something.  So, she left it to him when she passed.  And it sat in his yard until the gentleman I bought it from bought it a few years ago, trailered it from Michigan, painted it, and drove it a bit.  He said he didn't want to drive it because if he ever got in an accident he'd never be able to fix it.  He didn't seem to be much of a mechanic.  So it sat all last summer, and this year I bought it.

I wasn't sure what to think about it.  I have been looking and watching pinto's for a few years, hoping to find my one.  And I figured if the mileage was correct, that it would be MUCH more expensive than he was asking.  Small things are leading me to believe that it may be correct and not 22500 plus 100k.

After driving it a bit, it sure drives nice, straight and tight.  The motor could run a bit better (hence the tuneup this week) and has a slight knock.  But all in all I think I really got a great deal on this car.

And I love the hubcaps.


JonzWagon

Outstanding little red car you got there!!!  I agree on the rag joint problem.  I replaced that part on my wagon a few years ago and couldn't believe the difference it made.
Your pony is in such great original shape I think you should keep it stock, especially the Red & Black combination. However, that is just my opinion.  Its a great car, enjoy it, drive it and welcome to the "club"      John

douglasskemp

Quote from: Stugots on August 15, 2009, 10:57:02 PM...Except for a huge dead spot in the steering, it runs decent and drives excellent...

My first Pinto had this problem, and I believe many people here have had this as well.  Check the rag-joint on the steering shaft.  It is located just above where the shaft connects to the rack.  Replacements can be found in the 'Help!' section of your local parts store.  They can be a real pain to replace, but makes a WORLD of difference in how the car handles the road.  Good luck with a really nice little car.  (My favorite color too ;D )
The Pinto I had I gave to my brother. The car was originally my mom's, (78 red Pinto sedan with a 2.3 and a 4spd.) I am originally from Tucson, AZ but moved to Oxnard CA :D
I'm looking for a Pinto wagon with an automatic.

Stugots

Been driving it for a couple days now.  And one thing I have noticed.  I have had a LOT of cars.  But none have gotten me more thumbs up and compliments from other drivers than this one has.  Except for a huge dead spot in the steering, it runs decent and drives excellent.  I am really happy I bought this car.

smallfryefarm

 :welcome:   :amazed: sweet looking pinto looks like a awesome find.
Smallfryefarms Horsepower Ranch

phils toys

2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Stugots

hey, I live in Amherst, and own an pizzeria in Tonawanda!  It's called TNT pizza on main street, should tell him to stop by sometime :)

dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

phils toys

looks good  i saw that one listed on craigs list. and the price seamed fair. there is another pinto guy ( Phil pinto1600) in your area  he is from tonawanda  area.  and i am from the erie area. so welcome   phil keeps inviting me to your area for a show sometime i just might make it.
phils toys
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Stugots

Thanks!  Yeah it's clean, and I cant believe I found it in buffalo.  It's originally from Michigan, which isnt much better with salt and things.  Theres a bit of mud in the quarters, and underneath can use some freshening up, but all in all I'm happy with my purchase. 

I've already started amassing the info for the 2.3t swap, lots more to do.  Hoping to do it all over the winter.  (I want to put it on the road and drive it for the rest of the summer).

blupinto

Gorgeous little '76 you got there Stugots. It's rare to see such a clean Pinto.  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

71pintoracer

 :welcome: to the Pinto world!! ;D Super clean looking car you picked up, very nice. Ya know how good the Merkur and the T-bird run? Now imagine loosing about 1000+ pounds when you do a swap into the Pinto!! :fastcar:
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

75bobcatv6

Very nice car man. You could do the 2.3t Swap into it. theres a wealth of info here if you need help

Stugots

And here are the other 2 "projects" I have stuck in my driveway/garage at the moment.

Too many projects not enough time.

1989 Merkur XR4Ti which (because I got the pinto) is now for sale.



And my nearly Daily Driver 1988 Thunderbird Turbocoupe.


Stugots

Hello everyone.  A little background.  I have been wanting a pinto basically ever since I started lurking around this site a couple years ago.  I finally found a really decent one in Western NY and scooped it up and brought it home today.

It is a 1976 MPG, and the best part about it is that it is all there.  The interior is in great shape, and was repainted a couple years ago.  Underneath has some rust, but nothing that can't be repaired fairly easily.  Not 100% sure what I'm going to do with it over the next few years, but I have parts from an 87 turbocoupe that I had to junk a few years ago (engine, transmission, ecu, etc etc) that I have been holding on to in hopes of finding a suitable place to put them.  Still not sure if this is the one, but we'll see how things go.

Anyway, here's some pics.