Mini Classifieds

Hatch needed
Date: 09/10/2017 09:16 pm
71-73 Hood
Date: 12/07/2018 06:22 pm
1977 Pinto Cruising Wagon FOR SALE

Date: 08/20/2017 01:34 pm
Intake manifolds

Date: 03/06/2021 03:04 pm
71-71 speedo cable
Date: 07/31/2021 09:04 pm
1977 pinto rear bumper
Date: 04/19/2021 11:57 am
72 Pinto
Date: 03/07/2019 12:07 pm
Looking for 1.6 exhaust manifold heat shield, front license plate bracket
Date: 11/04/2018 02:34 am
I have a 1977 Cobra body lots of parts here
Date: 04/12/2017 06:57 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,895
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,581
  • Total Topics: 16,270
  • Online today: 1,293
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 158
  • Total: 158
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Project " Budget Road Rocket "

Started by Ironman, July 12, 2008, 11:38:54 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ironman

Quote from: Pintony on July 12, 2008, 04:51:07 PM
I think Frank missed the point?

My point was that I have many years and have tried different brakes and have NOT found any worth the time and money spent.

My philosophy "NOW that I know" Is unless you are BREAKING the stock parts then don't go spend money un-necessarily.

That is my opinion. Do what you want.
But if you ask for an opinion do not "argue" as if you already had your mind made up.


I agree with Frank that you MUST have your items working properly and MUST have the BEST brake shoes-pads you can find.

In almost all cases when under a panic or sudden need for good brakes the tires were the weak-link as the adhesion from tires to the road was not as good as the brakes.
From Pintony

Wow!,...sorry if I ruffled anyones feathers,.. not my intention at all,.. I did ask for imput on how not to waste money,.. and Tony would be right in his assumption I had allready thought I was going to have to have larger brakes. My view was based on experience around high performance and racing vehicles, as well as some of my own projects. I was hoping to find a cheap way of accomplishing this,.. but it appears there is no need.  I'm ok with being wrong,.. its part of the learning proccess,.. but dont be offended just because I stated a different view, or opinion. Most of us have them,.. and I'm at the age where its a little harder not to. lol

I once put together a 340 hp Iron Duke cobbled from the wierdest array of parts you could imagine,.. and made things work that intelligent people scoffed at. I dont think I'm "all that" or that those folks didnt know what they were talking about,.. I just know that there are very few absolutes, and that everything that is suposed to work or not suposed to work isnt so just because "bob" says so. I usualy look for several people supporting the same idea before taking it as reliable.

I would really like to post some pictures of my car,.. if I could just figure out how. Its no gem, but I think its cool,..

Anyway,.. how do I post a picture?
Ironman

FCANON

I'm so glad a persons opinion value is that of how high their post count is.
I never got that message. (Not even Joking)

I too have owned several Pintos and have driven several hard miles and not suffered brake fade on a 9 inch disk, as long as the parts are in spec's and of some quality.

I have had more issues with the lack of improvement on the Granada/ GM caliper swap. I can say the last adapters I made were Merkur dual pistons on 9 inch rotors with a 460 Pinto. But they were small metric calipers. I ran large mid 70's truck drums in the back.

For someone that might be sassy driving the street the stock parts are best to reinvest in,  making sure its all with in spec's and operating correct ...

I would like to see Pic's of your little car no matter the condition.

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Ironman

I dont think stock 9" rotors will effectively  pull a 2000 lb car down from high speed once,.. much less several times in a row. My Fiero had 11 inch on front and I belive nearly ten on the rear. They were vented disc and worked good on a 2500 lb car. Even at that, they burned a couple times.

I did just find a thread in here that covered a 5 lug disc conversion from a Granada,.. great info.  Has anyone posted anything that informative on the 5 spd conversion?
Ironman

Ironman

Hi Tony,..

Negative on it being the Michigan sprint,.. when I saw that picture I realized what my car is.

Mine was found in Maple Valley Washington, and is in poor condition by comparrison,.. needing a repaint and some interior work is only half the problem. The bottom of the spare tire well is " see through "

I am the " junkman " or " scrapper "you all refer to. I was called to clean up an area and haul off several cars. There was a make shift car port that was literally colapsing around what looked like a Pinto from what I could see.

We lifted the structure off the car with a backhoe and were suprised to find it had only recieved a dent next to the fuel cap. other than that and a minor wrinkle where someone had tried to straighten the rear bumper it seemed pretty much undamaged.

the heartbreak came later. I told the guy running the Hoe to pull it out to the road so I could winch it up on my truck. ( You see the disaster comming dont you ),.. I didnt.

I should have left instruction to be careful,.. the original black plastic grille was destroyed as he simotaniously bent the living *&$# out of the front bumper when he " hooked " the bumber with the teeth on the bucket to pull the car.

Anyway thats the car I have.

Ironman

Ironman

Since I drug this 72 "sprint" ( I am now enlightened as to what exactly it is I have ) home it has sparked interest from a few different people,.. And each one of them has their own information about pintos that " I need to know " .

What I really need is  some solid direction,.. warnings for pit falls to avoid etc. I need advice on how to achieve my goal without overspending in areas its not nessasary so I can spend the money on the unique aspects of my project.

If you will bear with me, I'd like to state what it is I have, and what it is I want. And as usual, they are two dramaticaly different things.

Why a Pinto?

Years ago I bought a 2000 cc 71 Sedan, it was warmed up a little, cam and carb mods, a long tube Esslinger header, low profile Mickey thompson 50 series on the rear and some traction improvements.
It was a "sreet fighter" in 1st and 2nd gear I was truly amazed at the acceleration comming from a 4 cylinder vehicle. ( All my cars prior were landyatchs by comparrison ) And the beautiful part was it still behaved like the thrifty commuter when I wasnt tearing the shifter out of the trans going for 3rd gear,.. ( that literaly happened several times )
A few months ago I came across a 72 Sprint and fond memories returned.
Anyway, thats the romance of it.

What I have,

72 sprint, 2000 cc 4 spd.
Enough rust I dont feel the car is worth restoration.
Solid enough I cant see scraping it.

What I like,

Sedans, 2000 cc engines, manual transmissions, early style bumpers ( plain, no rubber strip or bumper gaurds ) Low elevation.

What I'd like to do,

Build a street version of a road race car. I " WILL " use it hard, so it has to be more than cosmetic. Big brakes with stout suspension, posi rear, 5 speed trans, and most likely fuel injection. Relocate the battery, maybe a fuel cell, and a basic cage. The wieght must stay down at all cost, the target would be 2000 or less.
I need a place to start,..

Questions,..

1. Are all sedans the same in appearance,.. are there several years with intercahangeability so I can end up with an early appearance car?

2. Since the desired appearance is that of a road race car, proper track may not be critical.
Are there any known suspension mods that arnt to painful to the pocket that will gain me larger brakes? I dont care if the bolt pattern changes, in fact if it did change it might allow me a better wheel selection.

3. Is there a posi rear axle available thats easy to find?  Probably wanting too much, but having the same bolt pattern front and rear would be great.

4. Is there a known conversion to put a 5 spd. behind a 2000?

I'd like to avoid some of the bumps,. I'd like to hear from anyone who has tried, or has knowlege of these mods.
Ironman