I had my 77 Pinto Wagon's frontend aligned. The shop didn't have the specs for the wagon so they set it off the specs of an 80 Mustang if I remember right. It feels good but it just doesn't fell right. Does anybody have the stock specs for a frontend alignment for a '77 Pinto Station Wagon? Thanks.
Caster: .5*- to 1*+
Camber: .25*- to 1.25*+
Toe in: 0 to .250"
(Haynes)
Bill
Awesome! Thanks for the quick reply Bill. I'll compare that to what they set mine at and see how much it's off, if any.
How would I be able to tell if just one side is off in alignment? My car pulls to the left, however I believe that the passenger side is off due to the old tire being worn on the inside.
I recommend replacing both tires. You seam to feel non power steering tire problems worse then power steering models also. I replaced both of my fronts and what a difference. and they weren't even that bad.
I did replace them both and it still pulls to one side.
I don't want to have a shop do my alignment because I still need to replace my ball joints due to bad grease bellows. The joints are tight though, however after replacing them I would have to have another adjustment done.
could the pulling be due to a caliper and not the alignment?
I'm not thinking so. The calipers are fairly new and shouldn't be causing any pulling/ How would the caliper affect the straightness of the car though?
If the caliper is sticking it will pull because it will put more drag on that side. If the piston is sticking in the bore, the inner pad will be worn more. If the caliper is sticking on the slides, the outer pad will be worn more. A deteriorated brake hose can do the same thing, although it can also make it pull both ways when braking. What happens is the passage inside the hose gets partialy clogged, restricting the flow of brake fluid. When you step on the brake the first time, fluid can't get to the caliper so it pulls to the other side. If you brake again soon enough the fluid that finally got in can't get out so it will pull the other way.
is the steering wheel centered?
I wanted to reply on these questions, but all the other answered seemed to be covering it (and are all good)
However, after (almost) fifty years of automotive repair, here's what I'd say (and do)
If the caster was "positive" (plus 1,2,or 3) and both sides were equal to each other (both read the same) I wouldn't push for anything closer (to spec.)
Both camber and toe are important and could wear a tire if,off spec.
For what its worth, and what your working with, I'd be happy with,,,,,,, camber at "0" to "1/2" positive (closer to the 1/2 if possable) and toe at, Towed in, but not more than 1/8th
If you could come close to these figures, your tire should wear even, car handle fine
As to a pull,,,,,there are other things to look at,,,,, Disc. brake calipers,,,,,, Tires and there wear patterns,,,,,,,,, but, if the "caster" is not equal to each other,, it will pull
And before you try to align it, ALL FRONT END PARTS MUST BE GOOD. A bad ball joint, and you cant align the car (actually you could, but as soon as you move the car, the spec's will change as the joint moves around. Same thing to true with tie rod ends and etc.)
Hope this is understandable, just because I/we know what we are doing, doesn't mean I/we can explain it to somebody else,
Best as always,,,,,,,,,Jim at jims pinto
Alot of great advice. If you want i done right you need to make darn sure that all the bushings,wheel bearings, ball joints, rods and tires are in great to good shape. If not sure then replace them.
One thing that i have to add is that you should take it to a place that specialize in older cars. The newer places (some of them) have a bunch of lazy workers that all they know how Or WANT to do is adjust the toe. The Pinto takes alot of work to properly align. And i doubt he has the Pinto/Mustang II tools that are required to do a proper caster/camber setup. I know this from personal experiance. They just see if things are close to spec and if they are they just wont toutch it But if one side is on the high tolerance and the other is on the low than they will leave it alone.
You might want to check Ebay for the set of caster camber adjusting tools. They can be had very reasonable. If the alingment guy looks at the tools and scoffs or acts like you handed him a lefthanded screwdriver, then go somewhere else.
Good luck
Quote from: jimspinto on September 27, 2008, 12:44:25 PM
I wanted to reply on these questions, but all the other answered seemed to be covering it (and are all good)
However, after (almost) fifty years of automotive repair, here's what I'd say (and do)
If the caster was "positive" (plus 1,2,or 3) and both sides were equal to each other (both read the same) I wouldn't push for anything closer (to spec.)
Both camber and toe are important and could wear a tire if,off spec.
For what its worth, and what your working with, I'd be happy with,,,,,,, camber at "0" to "1/2" positive (closer to the 1/2 if possable) and toe at, Towed in, but not more than 1/8th
If you could come close to these figures, your tire should wear even, car handle fine
As to a pull,,,,,there are other things to look at,,,,, Disc. brake calipers,,,,,, Tires and there wear patterns,,,,,,,,, but, if the "caster" is not equal to each other,, it will pull
And before you try to align it, ALL FRONT END PARTS MUST BE GOOD. A bad ball joint, and you cant align the car (actually you could, but as soon as you move the car, the spec's will change as the joint moves around. Same thing to true with tie rod ends and etc.)
Hope this is understandable, just because I/we know what we are doing, doesn't mean I/we can explain it to somebody else,
Best as always,,,,,,,,,Jim at jims pinto
Absolutely correct. I had an older 78 Toyota Corona that still pulled after the toe was set, a quick turn of the eccentric nut to reset the caster took care of that.
Quote from: CHEAPRACER on September 27, 2008, 10:36:42 PM
Absolutely correct. I had an older 78 Toyota Corona that still pulled after the toe was set, a quick turn of the eccentric nut to reset the caster took care of that.
Well thanks guy, your comment kinds of hits the nail on the head ! !
The reason I didn't reply (at first) was because most everyone that is restoring and/or working on a Pinto today is an armature, and will pretty much go by the book
Now lets not start an argument here, I said "most" and there's nothing wrong with going by the book. Now that that out of the way, I can continue........
Alignments were always somewhat of a pain in the a**. There is alot of missunderstanding as to what an alignment (or lack there of) will cause. And believe me I got them all, and rather then rip them off, I always tried to explain the front end of the car to a customer. It worked out to the better, as I had a very good reputation, and alot of repeat customers.
However, there are alot of shops that will give you a bum-steer (pun intended)
Although it was my objective to keep the customer happy, if I charged for an alignment, I DID IT. And I always tried to get the car to handle correctly (well) on the road, Quite often I'd varied off "spec" but only on caster. Camber and toe were always set as close to spec. as I could get it, with tire wear in mind.
Re. Whether or not the alignment that provoked this post was done, and done correctly, my first thinking and answer is NO.
Now I'm sounding like a consumer. Alignments were ALWAYS a money loss (to the shop) You'd spend a couple of hours on an alignment, and the set price (in my day was $19.95) was within a half hour of the hourly labor rate, The objective was for customer satisfaction and return for other work
This is long and redundant, but I meant to get the point of going for the sepc's I'd mentioned before across. If you (or a shop) could get the car within those readings, the car would handle fine and the tires wear good.
Best as always Jim at jimspinto
I just had mine aligned yesterday, to an '81 Mustang II. Tire Kingdom's data goes only as far back as '81... Seems to work fine!
Quote from: 77turbowagon on June 24, 2008, 02:13:26 PM
I had my 77 Pinto Wagon's frontend aligned. The shop didn't have the specs for the wagon so they set it off the specs of an 80 Mustang if I remember right. It feels good but it just doesn't fell right. Does anybody have the stock specs for a frontend alignment for a '77 Pinto Station Wagon? Thanks.