There are a few folks on theis list doing an 8 inch swapp in their Pinto's. And, there are questions.
I hope to answer some of those questions and make the swapp as painless as can be.
The first question is " what car can I get an 8 inch from". The answer(s) are. Mustangs, Cougars, Maverick's, Mustang II and Pintos are the most common.
Now, are they all the same NO. Depending on the year and type of donor car the rear end will be slightly different. However, they are mainly different between the 1965-1967 group and the 1968 and up group. I will be showing you the difference between a 1966 mustang and a 1976 MustangII.
In the next session of pictures I will show you the main differences between the ( Early ) and ( Late) model 8 inch rear ends.
Here is a picture of the two side by side. As you can see, you realy cant tell much from looking at them here.
We can start at the rear of the housing. The early housing has a drain hole in it and the late model does not. You will fill the Diff up from the plug in the carrier unit.
Here is the Late model.
Next, we will look at the Axle housing ends. These are simular but not the same at all. As you will see in the next few photos the early and late model units are not interchangable as they pertain to the axles and backing plates.
Here are the dimentions of the early housing.
And here are the Late model.
Then there are the axles. The Berring's are the same but the length, spline length, width at mid point, and retainor are all different.
Late model
5 lug retainor
4 lug retainor
spline ends
The overall lengths ar different too. The Late model is the exact same length as your stock 6 3/4 unit.
where the early 8 inch is 1/2 inch wider or 1/4 inch each side. Which would be nice with a wide wheel/tire combo.
( Please disreguard the dimention, it is typed in on the picture incorrectly)
This is what the Late model center sections all look like. Note that it has ribs , both verticaly and horizontally. The early center sections only have horizontal ribs.
Good informatin! Thanks for posting it.
Some other differences in the 8" between , say a '76 and '80:
The brake line going to the right wheel was relocated over the pumpkin, instead of behind it. I believe this had something to do with the gas tank hitting the rear end in a collision. The clips that hold the brake line are rather stout and could rip open the tank.
Also, the brake hose assembly (from the body to the rear axle) is different starting in 1977. The '76 and older hoses had the same size fittings for the two lines going to the brake cylinders. In '77, the fitting for the left wheel brake line is larger than before. It still uses a 3/16" brake line, but the fitting is larger. The right wheel brake line fitting is the same size as before.
I cannot for the life of me figure out what they were thinking when they made this change.
This note is filed under the ( Oh by the way).
One of the Biggest differences of the two axle housings is the spring perch brackets. On the early housing its aprox 1/2 inch WIDER that the late modle, which is the same as the stock unit. In order to use the early axle housing you will need to modify the spring perch either by cutting them off and re welding OR modify the brackets. Its aprox 1/4 per side so its not much but just enough not to work with out some help.
Thank you for the very thorough tech info. Great stuff!
This is really relevant to me as I just picked up my second Pinto and the brakes are fused (rusted for years). Rather than rebuild what I've got I was thinking of doing the big switch to larger 5-lug Granda rotos, etc. The front end sound doable but I'm wondering how to manage 5-lug wheels and brakes for the rear? If I can find an early model Mustang, 8" rear end, I'll do that but is there another option? Has anyone just gotten custom axles from Moser for Pintos (drilled for 5-lug) and used the rear brakes from a Ranger or something?
You can use the Rear disc brakes from an Explorer. They work great.
I picked up a housing and axles from a 78 MII, (not a posi) and a limited slip posi third member from a different MII. Will the axles from the non-posi rearend work with the posi third member?
yes they will work with no problems.
I thought the Exploder rear brakes would only fit on the "Torino/Galaxie" big bearing 9" rear ends?? I had planned on just welding on the big bearing ends, but if they fit on an 8" as is, thats great!
Quote from: turbopinto72 on October 14, 2004, 03:18:49 PM
You can use the Rear disc brakes from an Explorer. They work great.
Will the rear brakes from a 6 3/4" rear end fit a 8" mustang 2 rear end? They look the same. Drums look the same. My 8" brakes are junk, but the 6 3/4 look like new. Help me out.
Yup, I used all my stock brake parts when I swaped an 8 inch. in fact, I never disconnected my brakes from the car, just layed them aside.
Thank you! Saves me lots of work. I knew the brake shoes were the same. Thanks again, Tricky Dick.
I was discussing this issue with a Currie rep, and he says the Explorer brakes will not fit the 8". I found the following artical that explains:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/howto/28733/
"According to Currie, this kit will be a direct bolt-on to rearends from ’73â€"’79 big passenger cars and ’77â€"’86 pickup trucks. "I think I am going to try and figure out how to use them on an 8". Probably figure out what ends to use and weld them on. :-\
Quote from: turbopinto72 on October 14, 2004, 03:18:49 PM
You can use the Rear disc brakes from an Explorer. They work great.
Thats a bad link. BTW there have been several people that have used exploror brakes on their 8" rearends that I know. One of them is Joe Morgan.
Brad,
According to the April '99 issue of
Hot Rod in which Joe Morgans Pinto was featured;
"Disc brakes were scavenged from an '88 Turbo Coupe and bolted to the Pinto 8-inch axle. Currie Enterprises offers a bolt-on adapter that mates a T-bird caliper adapter to the axle end"
Is this no longer accurate? Has Joe changed his setup?
Here is the link for that article:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/howto/28733/
Edit: the forum software is screwing with the link, try mustangandfords.com/howto/28733/ , but add "www" to the beginning
Quote from: turbopinto72 on November 23, 2004, 10:51:45 AM
Thats a bad link. BTW there have been several people that have used exploror brakes on their 8" rearends that I know. One of them is Joe Morgan.
Kris, I called my sources and they admitted to having to weld on the large, 9" axle flanges to do the explorer swap. Sory to all for any confusion, and thanks to Kris for bringing to our attention. Now, that being said, I want to know if Kris has anything " Shiney" on his car.................. ;D
Nothing shiny on my car Brad. ???
Quote from: kris kincaid on November 23, 2004, 08:33:31 PM
Nothing shiny on my car Brad. ???
Hummm, you do know about ( shiny=good) ???? ;D Please refer to the countless posts on this topic. Its kind of a matra we like to say.
Did a little search, and now I understand. :D
yes, shiney=good i got my forged H beam rods today, and they are shiney!
I'm picking up a 76 runabout in a couple days and have plans to do a late model turbo swap with a 5speed. I want to run the 8" and this was very good info. Thanks for sharing. I just hope the car already has the 8" in it!
Some more info for those looking for a 5 lug 8":
The 65/66 mustangs with a v8 had the 8" rear, but it is narrower from drum face to drum face than the later 67/68 stangs (two or three inches, I do not have the exact dimentions, but they are much closer to a pinto rear). The rear in my car is about 59". The 65/66 ones are easy to pick out of a crowd, as the housing tubes taper near the ends (like the 23 spline pinto 6.75", pre-79), but all of them 65-68 have the same perch widths and size. The tubes on the 65/66 have the same diameter as the pinto ones. These are not a bolt-in for a pinto, but they are not too hard to install. I have one (full assy) from a 68 in my pinto. The outisde to outside edges of the perches are about the same as for the pinto. I slotted the perches (off-center to the perch itself) to match the perches (on center) for the pinto. I then welded a 4inch piece of .5 rod to both inside edges of the perches to give it more support. I also had to open the holes on the mount brackets and use the u-bolts (1" longer than stock, I got them from Mustangs Unlimited) from the 68. I have stock 14" x 6 ford steel wheels with a 4" backspacing on the rear now, and have no issues with rubbing. I will admit it looks strange from the rear, but the rear sway bar gets you attention off of it.
I want to get a pair of 14" x 7 (5.5" B/S. custom made) race rims that will help the "look". I then want to cut the bead area off of a set of stock 13 inchers, and weld the hoop to the 14 inch wheels. Then a set of stock hub-caps will pop right on for the sleeper look.
I will get some pics as soon as I can.
Bill
Quote from: turbopinto72 on October 14, 2004, 03:18:49 PM
You can use the Rear disc brakes from an Explorer. They work great.
Do you have any information on how much work is involved in doing this swap? I could really use some fast info on this as this would help me in the next 2 weeks before racing season starts. Please email me at HolcombRacing@yahoo.com . ThANKS
Maverick 5 lug 8" rear axle info:
1) The 5 lug ones are 5 on 4.5" and were on ALL 1973 and later Mavericks. The earlier ones had a 4 lug as well, but it is not the same lug pattern as a Pinto (4 on 4.5").
2) They are about .5" narrower overall than the Pinto 8" rear (ABOUT 56.5" drum to drum). IF the shafts are installed in a Pinto housing, they will engage the splines .25" less for each side; This is something to think about BEFORE doing. I have a pair of .25 wheel spacers to put it at the stock pinto track width.
3) The perches are not set-up to use the rubber/block assy.s.
4) Like the 67/68 Mustang ones (and others), the perches are narrower, and have a different O/C measurement, but the outside edge of the them are about the same distance apart as the Pinto perches (about 45").
5) The bearing retainer plates on the Mav. are the same as the ones on the 67/68 Mustang, but NOT the same as the 8" Pinto ones. My plan was to put the shafts in a Pinto rear, but I would have to pull the bearings off the shafts to switch the retainer plates, and along with the spline isssue, I just re-worked the perches like I did on the 67/68 rear to install it.
6) The tubes do not taper, they are 2.75" to the brake plate. You will have to use the Mav. shock plates and bolts (if you do this I think it will make the install very easy, but you will lift the rear of the car), or slot the holes in the Pinto blocks and plates; I slotted mine to run the M-II rear sway bar mount shock plates.
7) They take the same axle seals (two parts places told me otherwise, but they were the same as the 68-73 Mustang and the Pinto 8" rears).
8) They need drums and wheels with the BIG center hole. The drums from my 68 stang rear would not fit (good thing the Mav. ones were in good shape, as a matter of fact they had more meat on them). They need rims with the 2.75" center hole, the same size as what is needed to go on a Granada rotor.
9) I will post more if I find any more details.
10) Link to photo of what I did to modify the Maverick perches: http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,953.msg31360.html#msg31360
11) Hope this helps.
Bill
Quote from: 77turbopinto on May 19, 2006, 10:22:51 AM
Maverick 8" rear axle info (later years at least):
1) They are 5 lug, 4.5".
2) They are about .5" narrower overall than the Pinto 8" rear (drum to drum).
3) The perches are not set-up to use the rubber/block assy.s.
4) Like the 67/68 Mustang ones, the perches are narrower and the outside edge of the them are about the same distance apart as the Pinto perches (45"), on-center they are different.
5) The bearing retainer plates on the Mav. are the same as the ones on the 67/68 Mustang. (My plan was to put the shafts in a Pinto rear, but I would have to pull the bearings off the shafts to switch the retainer plates, so I just re-worked the perches like I did on the 67/68 rear to install it. I also have a pair of .25 wheel spacers to put it at the stock pinto track width)
6) The tubes do not taper, they are 3". You will have to use the Mav. shock plates and bolts, or slot the holes in the Pinto blocks and plates (like I did).
7) They take different axle seals.
8) Hope this helps.
Bill
NOTE!
Number 3 is in-correct.
The rubber perch is perfect for the early Pinto!!!! ;D
From Pintony
I added info to my last post.
Bill
Quote from: Pintony on May 19, 2006, 09:56:22 PM
NOTE!
Number 3 is in-correct.
The rubber perch is perfect for the early Pinto!!!! ;D
From Pintony
Tony: I was talking about the MAVERICK rear not being set up for the rubber block assy.
Bill
Here is what I did to make the Stang and Mav. rears fit.
Bill
Quote
What are the dimensions of the holes and how critical is the precision? Are they something that I can torch out or do I need to measure twice and then carefully drill and dremell?
It is critical that the holes are the correct size and location so that the rear is installed where it needs to be, otherwize the rear will be too far forward, to the rear, or sideways. Some aftermarket springs have the pin in the wrong location anyway, so you can use this as a way to re-center your axle.
Not something I would do with a torch.
As for the size, they are the same as what is on your Pinto axle. I don't remember the size drill I used.
I used a hole saw, drilled two holes with it and used a cut-off to join the two, and some work with a file....
You can just drill one small hole and use the Mav. shock plate if you wanted.
Bill
I guess that I have to resign myself to a bit of measuring and cutting when I get both axles dropped.
Vaguely annoyed that the wagon that I got is one of the rare ones without the 8" rear and had the wimpy 6.75" one instead.
Have you gone on car-part.com?
Bill
I got my Maverick axle home and discovered that the bolt circle is about 1/4" bigger than my Pinto bolt circle. What's up with that? What now?
>:(
Well Doug...
I thought there was a part in this conversation that said that the mav rear was 4 on 4.5 but I could not find it.
The only rears that have the factory 4 on 4.25 bolt circle are the M2 and Pinto V6..
If you are really slick and steady handed AND you are using old school MAG wheels you could elongate the bolt holes on the wheels or try some different axel combos.
From pintony
that maverikc rear end is the one I been looking for...offered on early 71-73 Mav's and Comets with a 200 and automatic. the 8 inch rear is a 4.5 x 4 lug like the Falcons,Mustangs and Comets of the 60's. the Mustang II/Pinto axles dont fit the rear ends at all.
Not many Mav's in Oklahoma salvage yards....
Frank
So want to trade axles?
Sorry but the axles dont swap...they have a odd tappered small bearring.
If I had a MustangII or Pinto 8 inch to spare I would swap you.
Frank
Is there a Maverick group similar to this group where I can ask about an axle trade?
Am seriously toying with the idea of drilling a new bolt circle in the Maverick flanges.
Did redrill some Studebaker Hawk hubs to take '50s Cadillac sabre wheels and that was a true pain.
I was tempted to put the Maverick axles in the Pinto 8" housing (mine had the same bearings). It looks like it would "work", BUT, the axles are 1/4" shorter (each), so 20%-ish less contact in the splines. Also, the retainer plates would need to changed, so new bearings are in order for that. It was easy just to modify the perches and install spacers behind the wheels.
A machine shop might be able to drill those for you too, I just don't know how much room the flanges have for the new hole pattern.
Bill
What year of explorer?
Quote from: turbopinto72 on October 14, 2004, 03:18:49 PM
You can use the Rear disc brakes from an Explorer. They work great.
I got the studs redrilled for the smaller bolt circle now. I am waiting on the parts store to get the seals in. Now where is a good place to get new U-bolts to clamp the axle down?
BTW, IIRC, 6-3/4 backing plates don't fit on 8" axles do they? Although I may swap the finned drums across.
Any good auto parts store or 4x4 shop should be able to get you u-bolts. Just get the three dimensions you need: length, diameter of the axle, and diameter of the bolt.
I got the new U-bolts. The axle swap will start on my next days off. Now many foot-pounds do I torque them down too?
I have the axles sitting on the springs and snugged down. Boy, it was a pain to get every thing back together and aligned! Now I'm ready to tighten it down and would love to know the torque specs for the U-bolts and the shackles, please! Thanks!
Hi all, has anyone had success buying aftermarket 5 lug axles for the Pinto/MII 8"? I called Currie, their rep said "No way their axles would work", even if I used the original (smaller) retaining plates.
Any ideas short of having the standard small bearing ends welded onto the housing? Has anyone else run into this?
Hey turbopinto72,
Thanks for the great info on these axles. I like many others am looking to convert to a 5 lug rear. I want to retain my Pinto rear and chang out the axle shafts. I know how to do this with Granada axles as it has been well documented. I have given up searching for Granada axles and have found a set of 66 Mustang axles. I read your post about the differences in the Pinto axle shafts from the 66 Mustang.
The bearings are the same but the retainers are different. I should be able to correct this by pressing off the bearings and using the Pinto retainers on the 66 axles.
The axle length of the 66 is about 1/4 inch too long. I would like to cut the 1/4 inch or so off the ends of the 66 axles and re-chanfer them.
The 66 axles are thicker in the middle. Will this prevent me from swapping them?
I would use the stock backing plates and brakes, but would look for 9" 5-lug drums. I have the axles coming and am willing to experiment to make this work. I know it would be easier just to re-drill the axle shafts and drums to 5 lug, but I'm not comfortable with doing that.
Any thoughts that you (or others) have on this would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Kevin.
I have a MII 8" 4 lug rear and want to go to 5 lug axles. Since this will be a turbo 2300 I am planning to put in aftermarket axles.
Now the questions to make sure I understand correctly.
Do I need to change the bearing retainer plate?
What is the best brake drum to use?
The internal componets to the brakes are the same, yes?
Can I use the same backing plates.
Obviously this is not a high dollar car so i have to watch my pennies but I want to make sure the brakes are right and safe.
Thanks for any help for this newbie at this 8" rear stuff.
jim
Hello jim,
I think it would be easyer to just get a 1971 Maverick rear.
From Pintony
Quote from: HELLFIREJIM on May 03, 2007, 08:38:24 AM
I have a MII 8" 4 lug rear and want to go to 5 lug axles. Since this will be a turbo 2300 I am planning to put in aftermarket axles.
Now the questions to make sure I understand correctly.
Do I need to change the bearing retainer plate?
What is the best brake drum to use?
The internal componets to the brakes are the same, yes?
Can I use the same backing plates.
Obviously this is not a high dollar car so i have to watch my pennies but I want to make sure the brakes are right and safe.
Thanks for any help for this newbie at this 8" rear stuff.
jim
Quote from: Pintony on May 03, 2007, 08:58:32 AM
Hello jim,
I think it would be easyer to just get a 1971 Maverick rear.
From Pintony
I have to agree, all you need is a pair of .25" spacers and slight modification to the perches and you are done.
I think all 71 and later ones are the same.
Bill
Quote from: 77turbopinto on May 03, 2007, 10:48:17 AM
I have to agree, all you need is a pair of .25" spacers and slight modification to the perches and you are done.
I think all 71 and later ones are the same.
Bill
Can't you just use the Axels from the '71' and later Maverics? Or will they not fit?
turbowagonman
Quote from: turbowagonman on May 03, 2007, 06:05:58 PM
Can't you just use the Axels from the '71' and later Maverics? Or will they not fit?
turbowagonman
Please read my post dated Nov 8 of last year in this thread.
HFJ: I think the axles are beefy enough for 400HP+ Pinto. If anything, I think you would have gear issues first. (based on what others that I know using those rears)
Bill
Jim,
If you're going to aftermarket axles anyway, Moser has the complete package: axles, bearings, retainer plates, studs, etc. Just got mine, very, very pleased with what they sent! If you want details please feel free to email me at bob_10@comcast.net.
Around 15 years ago I built a V8 Pinto. I used an 5 lug 8 inch rear out of a Maverick. I threw away the steel an rubber spring perch and used a torch to widen the holes for a 3 inch u-bolt.
After blowing up the 8 inch (N.O.S., 302, 4 speed top loader), I used an 9 inch Lincoln Versailles rear. It fit perfectly and was bulletproof.
Fastforward to now.
I have an 1980 CW that has a V6 and is mint. I want to use 5 lug Torque Thrusts.
I got 5 lug rotors ($29.95 each) and 2 inch dropped spindles ($169.95) from Speedway Motors.
My friend gave me an 9 inch Versailles rear.After some thought of all the work to install plus the price of calipers and rotors, I reconsidered.
I thought about a Ranger rear. Then it dawned on me. I called Moser, and for $60.00 they will drill my axles to the 5 lug pattern.So as soon as I find some 8 inch pinto axles, I will send them to get drilled, then use a transfer punch to mark and drill the drums. I want to keep my stock 4 lug axles in case I ever want to switch back???
I will keep you informed on the outcome and will put up a pic.
Dave
Thank you to all the replies. I appreciate the time involved. After reading all the posts and thinking about it, I believe I will go with the Moser package. :read: Bob I will be e-mailing you for details.
I also remember reading that Ranger 5 lug 10" brake drums would fit the 5 lug. I will see if I can find it. I don't know if I will go with drums or swap to disc brakes. :lost:
Anyway the axles solve this issue so on with the next one. BTW: my Pinto comes home at the end of the month. I now own 1/2 of it but not sure which half.
jim
Ok, So I have read this post through at least 5 times. What I would like to know is if there is any application where the stock 6 3/4 rear is good enough to run. In my squire I have a stock 2.0 but I am backing iit up with a t5 and I am trying to figure out whether I should moveup to the 8" or not. I have only been able to find one ocally and of course it is a 5lug and I was not planning on going that route with this one. Any thoughts...Bill...Tony...Brad?
Rob ???
in my own personal opinion; the OE rear end is fine for use with a 2.0 unless you are going to drag race the thing. drawbacks? you are limited to the gear ratios that are available and to tire/wheel size(s).
Quote from: srt on May 15, 2007, 02:54:55 AM
in my own personal opinion; the OE rear end is fine for use with a 2.0 unless you are going to drag race the thing. drawbacks? you are limited to the gear ratios that are available and to tire/wheel size(s).
BUT, now that I've seen what Pintony has on his green '72 maybe the wheel /tire issue just went away !! Looks nice P
You CAN keep the 6.75" rear behind a 460 if you want, and if you go VERY easy on it you won't have any issues. That being said, the one in my wife's car was SHOT behind the stock 2.3 at 64K.
If you keep the engine stock and/or DON'T beat on it, it should last.
If the 6.75" does go, DON'T have it fixed ($300.+), just replace it ($50. or less), or get an 8" to put in it ($50.-$150. depending on the gears).
Bill
Quote from: apintonut on December 02, 2007, 10:56:44 PM
what about using a ranger / explorer / aerostar 8.8. i have a locker for one and they are a dime a dozen. some are already posi. any thoughts on this? has it been tried?
Maybe, but this thread is about 8" rears.
Bill
If the pinto 8" is 57" is the measurement from the pinion gear centerline 28.5" to both sides?
Is the drive shaft yoke centered on the axle or off set?
Bringing this back from the dead :-), going from the Pinto 6and3/4 to a Mustang II 8 inch rear. Are the U-joints the same?
Thanks,
Russ
Quote from: Pintony on May 03, 2007, 08:58:32 AM
Hello jim,
I think it would be easyer to just get a 1971 Maverick rear.
From Pintony
that's the only option i have out here :'(
check it out http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,17673.msg113519.html#msg113519 (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,17673.msg113519.html#msg113519)
however, I'm the exact opposite of what most people here want... i want to keep my 4x4.25 pattern! its not fair that I'm stuck with what u guys want (72 Maverick 8") and you are all stuck with what i want (MustangII and V6 pinto 8")
sigh... such is life i spose lol
anyone want to ship a mustangII/V6 Pinto 8" to Oahu? surely it will be cheaper than the $300 the idiot at the junkyard here wants for the maverick 8"
I used an 8" from a '67-'68 mustang and traded a guy the 5 lug axle's for 4 lug from a 6 cyl Maverick.
Alright, as I read through here, I read that the mustang 2 rear ends are best to use. I see a difference from them to the 80's model. But I dont recall seeing anything about a 1979 Cobra mustang rear end. I see it has a 4 bolt pattern. Would they typically be a 8" and would they bolt up or need minor mods. If any one knows, let me know. I know someone that has a 79 cobra in bad shape. Once I start getting pay checks, I might be able to buy it cheaply. Also, what are the typical trannies in these and would the drive shaft be of any use? Thank you.
tinkerman73, I believe 1979 was the first year of the FOX chassis Mustang. If correct, it has a 4 link suspension with integral carrier rear. It will take some cutting and welding to get it to fit into the Pinto. It also is not the stronger 8.8" rear that came in the later FOX Mustangs (first in about 1986).
Not sure what transmission it came with but it is not the World Class version of the T-5 which came out in the mid 1980's. The drive shaft may be useable but measurements would need to be take of your final combination to be sure
Alright. Thanks. Sound like a no go!
isn't a 79 axle a 7.5"?