I went to start the 78 this morning to deliver it to the glass guy and have the windshield put back in and an old problem resurfaced ???
When I got this car I had a weird starting issue.... I would turn the key forward, engine would turn over but the car wouldn't start until I let go of the key. It was determined at the time it was the ignition switch with some help and suggestions... 77turbopinto, r4pinto and tony...
from: 77turbopinto on November 12, 2007, 12:14:10 PM
Forgot to mention the staring issue.
The way the switch works is that it will cut over to different 'ignition power' circuit when the switch is turned to 'start'. It is fully separate, and when the key returns to the 'run' position it goes to the normal 'on/run' circuit.
I would swap the ignition switch (electrical) with a know good one; it is located on the top of the steering column down near the firewall.
I answered...
I stopped at the auto parts store today and one of the guys there said the switch is adjustable? they showed me a picture of the part and the 2 screw holes look to allow for adjustment... and suggested I just try to adjust it... The seller did say the steering column had been changed so could it be possible to adjust the switch and it may fix the problem? what do you think?
and then r4pinto...
I can tell you from experience that the switch is slotted where it mounts to the steering column & can be adjusted. The 78 I used to have had a massive water leak & water leaked into the ignition switch in the dead of winter. It was locked solid from the ice. Anyways, I bought a new switch & installed it & had to move it around to get the position right. What I did was turn the key to the "on position & also made sure the switch was in the on position. I then put the ignition rod in the switch & finally installed the switch on the column. When I did that I was able to get it positioned right so I could start the car & have no problems.
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Anyhow, there's the history from my past post on it... I changed the switch and has been good so far without issues. I do however remember when I changed the switch It didn't seem to solve the problem right away but the more I "fiddled" with it soon there was no problem and has worked fine until this morning....
turn the key forward, car cranks but will not start until I let go of the key...
:wow:
I wonder... I am missing the engine to fender/body ground on this car... could that have anything to do with it ???
I'm lost and confused... what could be causing this? another bad switch? out of adjustment? Bad ground?
I also know steering column has been swapped.
I don't know... suggestions/thoughts anyone?
I would think that if it was a ground it would not let the car start at all. That being said, hook up that ground just in case.
If it were mine: I would 'bench test' the switch (on the car). This would tell me if it were out of adjustment or if it was a bad switch.
Bill
Hi cookieboy, if it cranks when key is turned to start position switch is adjusted right on colum, next to check is, when cranking it pulls a lot of amps so to increase volt drop to ign. coil make shure on start selenoid near batt. look for letter `I' this needs to be connected to coil, running volt. to coil is 9 v. ign. on position when you go to start pos. it by pases resistor giving you 12 v. for hotter spark for starting. Fred :accident:hate that when that happens :)
Thanks Bill and Fred,
Bill, that's what I was thinking but will start w/your advise. Ground strap first since I was going to do that anyway.
Not sure how I would bench test it? or would bench testing be the same as Fred suggested. I think that's beyond my skills/knowledge but know the "man" to take it to if it comes to that.
Not to walk off with this thread but I would like to reflect a little.
Since I don't have my books near and Its been a year since I looked at my DS2.
I recall two hot wires to the ignition. One is to the running position which supplies the Ignition system with something like 7.5-9 V for the engine to run off of. This Voltage is reduced with a Resistor wire (which sometimes gets brittle and corroded) but this in not likely your issue.
the other wire is a straight 12V for Starting during cranking...both of these are power to the ignition not the starter. But some cars had the starting wire routed from the starter relay, most likely the second small post to the right side of center of the relay switch...
If your cranking and its not firing until your back to the run position this should be the issue.
Feel free to correct me on this, it seems when I'm under the hood my thoughts are more clear...And from time to time I get confused, Just don't tell my kids.
Best of Luck
FrankBoss
Thanks Frank... any and all ideas are welcome...
come to think of it... after changing out the heater core and running the car w/no issues...
I did go back a replace the positive cable from relay to battery because the old one was shot and had not started the car since... until this morning. I did clean up all contacts with a wire brush but.... Hmmmm...
well.... I got it to start as it should ???
I started with the starter relay and that made no difference. Wiggled a few wires, tightened a few things, wiggled more things, all the while trying to start the car with no success. I even went over and wiggled the wires for the coil and some of the wires to the steering column... nothing.
Then I started looking for places to bolt the braided grounding strap I had laying around and found one at the rear of the engine to the fire wall. Connection was painted so I removed the body screw and cleaned it up with a wire wheel. Both the end of the ground strap and body have shiny metal to ground to. But this still didn't help...
All this time I kept wiggling, tightening and cleaning connections I kept smelling more and more gas but the car just wouldn't start. Every once in a while I would pump it once, about every 4 attempts. At first it would start the wrong way and I would just kill it right away. After awhile the gas smell was getting pretty strong and the bugger still wouldn't start. Finally came to the conclusion it was flooded so I did what you do to start a flooded Pinto and floored the gas pedal and turned the key. Cranked it over for a bit, a chugga chug later, big cloud of black smoke (and a Hearty Hi! Ho! Silver) and it started :o
now it starts like it should again ??? ??? ???
I started doing so many different things who knows what did it and when it flooded and wouldn't start after I found the problem. I would have to say for sure it's a loose connection someplace. I know disconnecting the positive cable to starter solenoid and cleaning those connections again didn't do it. Might have been after the engine to body ground strap was cleaned up or when I tightened the bolts for the starter solenoid to body, wiggled wires on the coil... I just don't know. If it happens again I will try again to find the issue.
Other than that seems to work as it should again so I guess I'm happy.
Thanks for the advise and hints... till next time ;D
I would and Do carry a spare Ignition module with me...they do flaky crap when they start to go out....
FrankBoss
www.PintoWorks.com
www.FrankBoss.com
That might not be a bad idea there Frank, Thanks. I agree and remember changing a few on the many Fords I have owned in the past.
Common issue w/ ignition modules, make sure to get a good quality one, NAPA is the best aftermarket IMO.
well I should update this.... Frank and 71Pintoracer deserve the 1 up
after replacing the ignition module all seems good so far, no more problems with starting ;D
Napa had 2 different ones (cheap and really! spendy) so I got the cheep one. I had installed a spare used ignition module and it seems to have the same problem. I wasn't sure I wanted to buy the spendy one because I had tried a different one only to have the exact same issue. The car the used one came from did have starting issues, person before me had wired a door bell button to start the car with ??? and No! I'm not kidding :lol: but find it odd to have 2 with the exact same problem...
In the past when they had failed on me the car wouldn't start at all or would die and after letting it sit for 10 minutes or so would start up again.. this was a new one for me..
Thanks for all the help/suggestions
thats good news so far Cookie boy..I convert all my 2.3L and V8'sto the DSII ignitions. the last modual I bought was 30 bones...its seems they tend to get old...I have one in Denises car that all the gell is ozzed out of it but it still works(factory part) I'll replac e it before summer hits.
Best of Luck
Frank Boss
Glad to help cookieboy, it is more common than you might think. You are right though, most of the time they will quit when they got hot, I used to tell people to put an ice bag on them to get them to the shop! The market got flooded with cheapo's that were crappy, I've seen FOMOCO's w/ all of the gell gone still running. When I raced dirt modified Pinto's I had 2 of them in the car and more than once I had to switch to the backup. Just like the NASCAR boys! ;D I finally switched to TFI and ended that problem.