OK, my '80 Pinto is really not a priority in my budget right now. I need to pay off some college expenses, pick up the main bearings for my '74 Suzuki TS125, and pay off what I owe my dad for buying the paint for the aforementioned motorcycle. I was thinking about sinking some money into the body of this Pinto, but I'd rather start looking at the engine and drive train first, since the body will be fine with a little sand and rattle can for a while.
So I'm poor basically, and I got my Pinto for $130 (a little less really). It's got the 2300 with a C4 automatic, but the transmission is probably slowly on its way out. I'm not a racer, but I think I understand a few things about how to make a car go fast as I worked a good part of my life wrenching on cars. I'm horribly unfamiliar with Pintos and generally cars of this era. I'm only 20 years old, so by the time I was working, most of these cars were long off the roads, especially in Pennsylvania where I grew up.
So the 2.3 liter 4 cylinder with a C4 automatic. I'm not sure what axle or axle ratio is installed, but I suspect it's a pretty tall ratio, as it has no guts accelerating from a stop, but is capable of well over 75 on the freeway (I don't have the guts much past 75 to spurr it to go any faster though).
My goals for this car to start with are:
1) It has to run on pump gas
2) I'm going to leave the slushbox in it
3) Less money is better so long as quality parts are used throughout
4) "Homegrown" is a distinct possibility for some of my own parts. Plus I really like unique pieces in a project - I think it shows pride in your car when you set it apart from the pack.
5) I'd put a goal at a 14.5 second quarter mile or better, but the car must be capable of cruising at 60-65 mph without feeling like it's on the verge of blowing up.
So a few questions:
1) Pushing a carbed 4 cylinder to its limits - any thoughts on where to start? Fords are notorious for crummy cylinder heads and intake manifolds from the assembly line. Could this be a good "port it yourself" project?
2) Valves - I'm guessing that we can go bigger, but would it prove better?
3) Intake manifold- a much bigger carb isn't going to do much for this engine, I suspect, expect at really high RPMs. But how about a 2bbl adapter? Can the stock manifold be ported, or is there a great aftermarket solution? I wonder if side draft motorcycle carbs on a custom intake couldn't be used.
4) I've heard a lot of discussion about the bottom ends on the turbo fords, and how much better they are than the N/A motors, but how can some of this be overcome? For example, are main girdles available to tighten up the bottom end? At what point should I be thinking about an aftermarket crank, rods, pistons, and bearings?
5) What about having some machine work done to this engine? It's reasonably low miles, but perhaps sending the head out to be milled down for higher compression, possibly getting the block decked at the same time... It has to run on pump gas, but I'm cool with it being premium fuel with octane booster!
6) What about the cost of a stroker setup? I know that 2500 and 3000 4 cylinders have been found in turbo applications, but anybody hear of N/A applications besides the 2.5 Rangers?
7) What about a mild cam? This is probably going to warrant a high-stall torque converter and a shift kit. Or maybe some of those Rhodes or Roads lifters or whatever they call themselves...
8) I've been told on this forum that the internals on the Pinto C4 are not as tough, built for light weight. Leave the stock innards, or dump them for some heavier metal? I'm wanting to weigh the pros and cons of having the lighter weight versus the extra strength.
9) I'm not sure which rear axle is in this Pinto, but I"m going to be willing to bet it's the 7" rear. Is it tough enough to stand up to a modded N/A motor? The lighter weight might be nice. Also what about the availability of tougher axle shafts, and ring & pinion sets for the smaller axle?
10) I'm going to guess since I haven't had the hubcaps off that these are 4 bolt hubs. Any word on some good adapters? What about leaving the stock wheels and having a professional widen the stock wheels so the car continues to look bone stock? Power obviously does no good if it can't be put to the ground.
11) I assume there's room to grow with a header. Any good manufacturers out there? If not I'm a reasonably good welder, so the only challenge to me would be making my own gaskets.
These are the bulk of my considerations, things that I'll keep looking for on my own, but that I thought some people here might be able to throw some advice in on. I'm not looking for a turbo build, just a carbed 4 cylinder. I was thinking it might be fun to see just how cheaply it could be done, if I collect parts from garage sales and ebay and swap meets and whatnot. Quality over cost, like I said, but cost will be a factor just the same.
Your advice and opinions are very much welcome here. :) This is a huge list, but it's not an obligation to answer these at once. One decision at one spot is going to affect the subsequent decisions down the line.
Hello CDG,
I have to say that just skimming your Post that you will NEVER achieve a streetable
14 sec 2.3 W/O a Turbo. A 14 in a mild turbo 2.3 is a GOOD FAST number...
The 2.3 block is plenty strong.
I prefer the Turbo block as they do not wear at the cylinder walls, but require the use of Electric fuel pump.
Sounds like you need to get some items in your life worked out B4 you get too involved with this project.
My advise is get what you have running as best you can and enjoy the Pinto for what it is. Do not fix what is not broke, or you will be broke $......
From Pintony
In theory, a stock N/A Pinto with a 2.3 should hit 75mph in the Q-mile (based on stock HP and an overall weight of 2600lbs).
The question is: How fast can it get to that speed?
I too am glad that your Pinto is not a priority. Spend your money on your education that way you will be able to play with Corvettes and Shelbys, not stuck like me settling with Pintos.
Bill
I will continue to enjoy my Pinto as it is for some time to come, and I think that is some great advice.
I heard of a guy who had broken his 2.3 on this forum into the 15s with an N/A 2.3. I wonder who that was...
As for my financial situation, I'm stretched thin now, but I get most of my education paid for on achievement scholarships, and I own 2 other perfectly reliable trucks to get me around when I have to. :) And as for Shelbys and Corvettes, I've already driven them, and I like my Pinto. It's not about having the fastest car on the road, or the sweetest looking ride, but it's rather about having some unique and finely tuned to me.
As for why I'm worn thin financially, it's less to do with my education and more to do with my expensive habits. I maintain about a thousand other hobbies, ranging from photography, furniture, guns, ghost town hunting, private aviation, guitar, and motorcycles. I don't drink or party, but all of the above pretty much take all my money anyway so I wouldn't be able to drink if I wanted to. :)
I wonder how much heat I will get for the aforementioned comment....
Bill
Oh come on man, everybody here knows you're more or less joking.
Pintos aren't desirable, but they're fun, and they're kind of rare in most parts of the country. Given the choice between a Ferrari and an old Toyota HiLux one time in a parking lot, I ran for the HiLux truck. They're just so uncommon with all the rust issues they had. There's a Ferrari in every rich neighborhood and at least 50 at every high dollar car show.
To me, that's what sets a genuine gearhead apart from a pretender. The true gearhead will have an appreciation for strange and unique automobiles, not just the classics.
Besides, what if I put some snake emblems on my pinto and make the world's first Shelby Pinto, or the Pinto-Cobra. :lol: Actually I bet somebody has done that already.
"Pintos aren't desirable"
Pintos may not be desireable to the Pebble Beach crowd but it sure seems like allot of people are scouring the US and Canada for these little survivors.
Like Yogi Berra said: "No one goes to that restaurant any more because it is always too crowded!" ::)
Quote from: 77turbopinto on February 21, 2008, 09:41:18 PM
In theory, a stock N/A Pinto with a 2.3 should hit 75mph in the Q-mile (based on stock HP and an overall weight of 2600lbs).
The question is: How fast can it get to that speed?
I too am glad that your Pinto is not a priority. Spend your money on your education that way you will be able to play with Corvettes and Shelbys, not stuck like me settling with Pintos.
Bill
STUCK??
SETTLING??
RRRIIIGGGHHHHTTTT!!!
Yea that is where I want to be....
Oh that is just a Pinto..Pft....
Who has the banning stick??
Somebody said the C-word..... ;D
From Pintony
cdg,
I agree with Pintony....finish your schoolwork for now and just keep the pinto in good running condition, out of the elements and out of harms way.
77TurboPinto... :lol:
High_Horse
Greetings cdg,
I have to agree with Pintony, BUT there's a huge caveat...
There is a medical diagnosis for our condition: Academus rejectus statusnosis.
We , no matter what station in life, age, income , of geographic location, demographic or political affiliation, cannot resist the inclination to submit huge amounts of personal energy, money , and even social skills for the purposes of being in an exclusive group of automotive rebels. It started in England and has infected all Ford enthusiasts of European lineage. The Escort/Cortina people are the causal carriers of this condition, and there is no cure.
There have been many variants of this condition, much like a flu virus, but a considerably more pleasant euphoria that may occur, as the disease progresses. Rest assured, there is no mortality issue, just a chronic need to tinker , acquire, sell , and infect other car lovers.
Marriage should be so pleasant...
Welcome, the holy archive is open to your intellectual needs, grab your wrenches, and engage!
Pintosopher
Thanks for being more understanding.
I pressed new crankshaft seals into my '74 Suzuki in my dorm room. It came at a huge sacrifice of time, space, and money. I'm about to do the main bearings in it next. Then it's on to the Pinto, and God only knows how long that will take. I read once that the average weekend warrior gearhead spends more than 7 years on his or her project before it ever sees the road or the trail.
QuoteThere is a medical diagnosis for our condition: Academus rejectus statusnosis.
I'm liking this site more every day.
High_Horse
My idea would be... Ported head, bigger cam (roller) and beehive springs if they make em for that head. Full length Headder and exhaust and more compression (9.5:1 or so) A-4LD automatic tranny 3000 or more RPM stall. 8" Pinto rear with 4.11 or 4.30s. Might run 14s. Pretty sure it would with a 5-Speed. The A-4LD tranny I believe has a locking converter so if it can be made to work in your carbed non computer Pinto it would not have a problem with the high stall on the freeway. It could probably be done fairly cheap. Less weight always helps. My 72 only weighs 2200 LBS with a full tank. We put a mildly built A-4LD in my friends SVO and it ran pretty hard. This is just pondering on my part. A lot depends on your idea of drivable. My friend when he was younger had a 13 second N/A 2.0 Pinto with every mod in the book thrown at it. It was a hand full but he drove it on the street. Other idea would be get a Turbo coupe shortblock. Do the cheap mods and put a 100 shot of nitrous. Oh and get a 4 hole lower intake manifold off a F.I. late model 2.3 buy the 2 BBL adaptor kit (Racer Walsh) and put on a 350 or 500 CFM 2 BBL carb from the junk yard. They (lower manifold) are great flowing right off the shelf. Hope this gives you some ideas. Except for the year and tranny I have been thinking of doing the same thing to my Pinto.
Racer Walsh - looks like a good parts resource for the 2.3. I was also on Esslinger's website the other day looking at some cool parts.
I'm really drooling over that dual Webber manifold - the velocity stacks they use in the picture on the website are beautiful. But that's an expensive setup, and probably not really optimal for drag racing anyway... It's still beautiful in my mind though. :D
My idea of drivable is being able to drive it to the closest drag strip and back without needing to trailer the car, or a helmet and earplugs. Driving it to the drag strip for me that means the drive between Wickenburg and Surprise, which is about a 20 to 30 minute drive in normally very mild traffic. Or being able to drive into town and back reasonably reliably (about a 10 mile round trip).
I like the 2bbl suggestion - this summer that will probably be the first mod to go on the car.