I'm pretty sure ive already got this problem figured out but figured id ask if this sounds correct. My best friend drives my wagon everyday to work. On the way in, the car started missfiring real bad. I took him to work, took the car home, and put new points in it, gapped them at .025, put it back together and the problem was gone. I proceeded to go to work later on in the car, and it was fine most of the time. Except a couple of times when i put my foot to the floor it would missfire again. I figured it was a timing issue and that id deal with it later. Well later on when i went to pick up my friend from work, it started doing it again. Its been raining alot the last few days almost constant, and cold, and now at this point it is dark. The headlights are on, the wipers are on, and the heater fan is on. Slowly but surly the lights get dimmer, the wipers work slower, and the fan gets slower. I turn the fan off knowing now that there is an electrical issue. The missfiring is alot worse, it idled fine but if it revved much over idle it missfired again. When i got there i picked him up and we went to oreillys. The alternator tested 7.8 volts on its output. Took the batter out and had it tested and charged. It tested good and so i had him charge it while i tested a spare alternator i had in the car from a parts car (i noticed an electrical issue earlier and changed the alternator out with one that i thought was good, which is the one that tested bad. The "spare" one in the car was the one i took off earlier) The spare on tested good, at 14.5 volts. But on the car (my POS tester) showed only like 8-10 volts output. Thats why i changed it. And the alternator i put on it showed more than that after i changed it. So it kinda sounds like my tester is junk. Anyways, i suspect the voltage regulator is the issue. I put the original alternator back on it and tried another tester and it shows that its only putting out a little over 10 volts. No matter how much i rev it up or anything else, it shows the same 10.XX volt reading. This same tester tests point dwell and RPMs from under the hood. It seemed right so i dont question the tester. Had the same problems again today. It was fine all the way home last night since the battery was fully charged before i left the parts store. (took about an hour). Then i jump in it today and it missfired at idle until it warmed up. then i took it out and drove it and it would once again missfire on hard throttle. Do i have more than one problem, or does it sound like the voltage regulator to you guys too? Its a 2.3 with points. An MSD with a stock 2.3 electronic distributor is sounding awfully good right now. :D;D They make an adaptor (msd to DS-II) too so i can just plug it right in and not have to splice and connect. Points would be gone that way. Still have to fix the voltage problem tho. I think the alternator is outputting enough to keep the car going under normal conditions, but not with the headlights on, wipers on, radio on, and blower motor on. It was so bad last night that the turn signals wouldnt even work. Its a wonder how it ran at all, tho it was just barly running. lol.
Sounds like the voltage regulator to me. I had a similar problem on a 78 I used to have. It ws misfiring very badly when I was driving home from work & when i got home I shut the car off, only to have it not start again. recharged the battery & replaced the regulator & had no problems again. I would recommend checking the wiring for the regulator. If a wire's loose it can cause similar problems.
Hello R4
your misfire was caused by lack of electrical energy. Not the regulator...
The regulator was the reason for the lack of electrical energy.
Ya i agree. Sounds like ive got the same problem tho tony.
Quote from: Pintony on December 12, 2007, 07:45:26 PM
Hello R4
your misfire was caused by lack of electrical energy. Not the regulator...
The regulator was the reason for the lack of electrical energy.
I know that. The bad regulator was the cause, & the misfiring was the effect.
At the risk of being banned here! :surprised: I said the !@!#$#^% with the stock alternator and regulator on my 73 and put an CHEVY alternator on it! I had to slot the upper bracket to bend it down and rewelded it and made a spacer so it fit tight in the stock lower bracket and it works WONDERFUL! Had to put 2 of the regulator wires to the other 2 of the 4 original wires but with the load sensor capability and everything built in one package I love it. If anyone is interested in it i can draw up a diagram of what wire goes where but it worth the effort not to have to hassle with all that junk anymore. 14.5 unless I have EVERYTHING wide open and thats with the amp and all running it puts out 12 or so. Just for the record its a Chevrolet Delco 10-SI used in the mid 70's to mid 80's. DONT HATE ME GUYS! :(
Quote from: Blacksheep22 on December 12, 2007, 09:43:17 PM
At the risk of being banned here! :surprised: I said the !@!#$#^% with the stock alternator and regulator on my 73 and put an CHEVY alternator on it! I had to slot the upper bracket to bend it down and rewelded it and made a spacer so it fit tight in the stock lower bracket and it works WONDERFUL! Had to put 2 of the regulator wires to the other 2 of the 4 original wires but with the load sensor capability and everything built in one package I love it. If anyone is interested in it i can draw up a diagram of what wire goes where but it worth the effort not to have to hassle with all that junk anymore. 14.5 unless I have EVERYTHING wide open and thats with the amp and all running it puts out 12 or so. Just for the record its a Chevrolet Delco 10-SI used in the mid 70's to mid 80's. DONT HATE ME GUYS! :(
Hey, I have GM calipers and hoses on my Pinto and no-one gives me a hard time.
(except Tony)
Bill
Id like to use a one wire alternator, internally regulated, but not sure how youd wire that up. There are several wires that run inside the car somewhere, if i changed it over id have to clean that crap out and i dont know how hard that would be, or what id have to keep or how to wire it up. I think i know what alternator you are referring to tho. It has three wires. The + field terminal ("BAT") and a plug with a white and a red wire. The red one just simply crosses into the wire from the BAT terminal, and the white one i assume goes to the guage, but i think there are two guage wires, where does the other one go? Doesnt matter really i guess i dont think ill be doing this right now but its something to think about. Sure would be nice to get rid of some unneeded wires and have some extra juice too. I am thinking about stepping up to an alternator from an AC car (it puts out like 20 more amps) as long as it would all hook up the same. I cant see 20 extra amps being harmful :D
It was indeed the voltage regulator. $35 later it is fixed. Now my tester shows 13 volts, and the reading is exactly the same on all 3 of my pintos. Its probably a little higher than that, as i am sure they're supposed to put out more than 13v and i cant i magine them all 3 having slightly low voltage, and being the same... :) No more missfiring, dim lights, slow wipers (tho today it hasnt rained thank god) or slow fan. Blinkers are all working again, etc etc. Its crazy how that little box can make such a huge difference.
PintoGuy76,
Good job!!! You kinda scared me there for a while but you hit that nail on the head. Happy Pinto motoring.
High_Horse
Thanks :D I was only daydreaming about changing to an internally regulated alternator. Id like to, but i dont have the time or money to mess with that right now. The external regulated system works just fine so i'll probably just leave it alone. :)
PintoGuy76,
It was the MSD Ignition. And did you leave the point gap at .025????????? It should be 20 max. and did you retime the car after the pointgap change????? Changing the point gap will change the timing.
High_Horse
Oh what about the msd? Not a good idea? I figured with the DSII distributor and an MSD that id have a better ignition system that didnt need to be played with all the time.
I did leave the point gap at .025. But im sure I need to reset it. I didnt know what the gap was supposed to be (its on the emissions sticker on the valve cover tho i think) so i just set it at something i knew would be close. Also I played with the timing a little but didnt set it with a light. It starts easy and doesnt spark knock. I dont have the timing cover on, which has the pointer on it so i couldnt set it dead on. I'll put it back on and then reset everything. Its running great for now tho and i'm preparing for a snow storm so i'll leave it be until the snow is over. This car isnt the best for use in the snow tho, those 3.55 gears make it easy to break the tires loose. lol. I probably should drive the other one but, its crankier in the cold, and the heat doesnt work as well, so you can guess what i'll be driving anyways :D lol.
PintoGuy76,
I was not against the ignition change. It just didn't apply to that troubleshoot. As it was you found the problem and all is well. Also, I must appologize for saying that your point gap should be .020. The book says between .023-.027 and .025 lands right in the middle.
High_Horse
Wow. And i was just guessing at the gap, too. I'd really like to get rid of these points tho, and go to an MSD 6a ignition. Msd says you can use the points distributor to activate the msd and also says you still wont have to ever regap the points again. But i dont buy that. If there is any energy going thru the points at all they are going to wear. I have a spare DS II distributor that id use. Along with the plug in adaptor for a clean neat installation.