Hello,
Note: my apologies to 77Turbopinto (Bill). I missed your "please don't email me" when I sent you these questions. But, now that it goes to the forum in general... .
There are a number of things I'm needing to find information about regarding the turbo 2.3 engine / 5-speed trans. swap. My Pinto is a 1973 Sta. Wag. with a 2000 and a C-4. The donor car is a 1988 intercooled T-Bird Turbo Coupe with 5 speed.
Questions:
1. I need to install an 8" rearend. The basic ratios available are the 3.00 and the 3.40. What do you recommend as the better ratio and why?
I see myself running a max. size tire of 215/60-15. The Turbo Coupe has the following - Gear ratios: 1st - 3:97, 2nd - 2:34, 3rd - 1:46, 4th - 1:0, 5th -0:0.8 and a 3.55 rearend with 225/60-16 tires. When I factor for the smaller 215/60-15" tires that I will likely use and the 3.40 rearend ratio it seems to bring things pretty close to the 16" tires and the 3.55 rearend of the Turbo Coupe. However, the Pinto is about 1,000 lighter, so perhaps I don't need to mimic the setup for the Turbo Coupe so closely??? I have all the numbers and can email them to whomever, but it's kind of lengthy to post here.
2. Driveshaft. Assuming I run an 8" rearend and the 1988 Turbo Coupe T-5 trans., what driveshaft do I need?
I have heard the statement, "get a fox chassis (I assume Mustang) driveshaft, it will fit." I'm a bit skeptical to purchase just "any" driveshaft. Are there specific model years with certain engine/trans./rearends that I should look for?
3. Motor mounts. I know I need to change the motor mounts. I am contemplating fabricating my own. What specifically is different about the early mounts that they won't work?
4. Clutch/brake pedals. Since my car is an Auto and I'm going to install a 5 speed I need the correct pedals. Are the Turbo Coupe pedals adaptable? I realize that I need to modify the setup to work with a cable.
5. Oil pan. Is there anything specific about the oil pan other than I need a front sump and pickup?
Thank you (any/all) for your time in replying. I have searched the internet rather extensively, but have found only partial or no direct answers to my questions. Input from someone who has "been there" would be greatly appreciated.
By the way, I have a MIG welder, hydraulic press, drill press, small lathe and the general assortment of tools a car hobbiest aquires over 35 years. So, fabrication isn't out of the question. At times I really enjoy the challange.
Thanks, Tom
I found your email in my spam folder after I read your post.
I have answered most of your questions here:
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,3008.0.html
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,4106.0.html
1) I had a 2.79 rear when I first put in the T-5 and it was driveable, but I did not like it. If I did not have the 3.00 one I had set to go in Connie's car (A/T), I would have run that one, but I have 3.40's in the car now; I think it is set just about perfectly for me with 215 60-14's on the rear. With stock Pinto 13" wheel and tires to get a REAL sleeper look, I would use the 3.00's to keep from spinning the tires TOO much. I agree, you don't have to set it like a T/C, but if you want a "bolt-in" T-5, you are somewhat limited anyway. My attitude was that I HAD a T-5, why go buy a different one? Also, the very low first gear keeps you from NEEDING a rear that would hurt highway mileage, be HARDER to find, and be much more expensive.
3) By 'motor mounts', are you reffering to the frame side brackets? You can use the stock Pinto 2.3 'engine side' brackets, and the mounts themselves if you convert your 'frame side' brackets to the 2.3 ones. I have never converted them, they are not a 'diret-bolt' swap, but that would still seem to be the easy way. IIRC: The ones on your car are welded on, you will need to remove them and install the 2.3 ones. The way I would do your swap is by doing DETAILED measurements of where the CURRENT TRANNY is located in the car, remove the engine and frame brackets, install a 2.3 on the tranny WITHOUT using the dowel pins, bolt the 2.3 engine mounts and frame brackets to the engine, locate the tranny in its proper location (+ pinion angle), install the frame side brackets to the car, remove the stock tranny, and install the T-5 with the pins. (keep in mind that this would be the time to address hood clearance) BTW: The C-4 2.0 bell is worth some money, don't thow it in the trash.
4) No, you will need Pinto ones, and a Pinto clutch cable.
Where are you located?
Bill
I stuck with the 3:55 rear gears and used the Turbo Coupes speedo gear mated to my cable and it's about perfect on the speedo calibration with 265-50-15's. I'm now driving this daily on the freeway at 70 running about 2600-2700 in o/d.
Switch bell housings now to the cable one to make your life easy. I kept the hydraulic clutch but it will require some creativity and frustration to make it work. To touch on that subject, my reservoir was mounted under the dash on the master and just broke on me (hits windshield wiper arm) and dumped on my clutch pedal, good thing it was in my driveway. A remote one from a Honda Prelude fit the firewall angle perfect and looks good if it helps anyone.
T-5 trans, 8" rear, I used the aluminum Ford Racing d/s from the early fox, now I can forget about any problems and fits perfect when you figure out the part number for the rear u joint. AutoZone has the joint but I threw the box away with the number.
Quote from: CHEAPRACER on November 26, 2007, 10:55:01 PM
...T-5 trans, 8" rear, I used the aluminum Ford Racing d/s from the early fox, now I can forget about any problems and fits perfect when you figure out the part number for the rear u joint. AutoZone has the joint but I threw the box away with the number.
The early Fox body Stangs use the Pinto FRONT u-joint for the front and rear (all caps the same), but because the Pinto rear one just uses different caps on the pinion, you install the Pinto rear joint right on the Fox driveshaft. If someone wanted to use the later Fox shaft, then a NAPA #372 (IIRC) u-joint will need to be on the rear (the pinion side caps might need to be swaped with the Pinto ones. I can't remember, but I did extensive measuring and it works).
Also, yes, you COULD use the aluminum Ford Racing driveshaft (45.5" O/C), OR you could go to a bone-yard and get an aluminum one thats the same length from a 90's AWD AreoStar..........
Bill
Has anyone tried using a different pinion yoke? like out of an early Mustang, Mustang II or Granada 8"? I am asking, because if you wanted to swap out gears and had another third member out of a different car...
Anyway, are all the 8"s setup with the odd caps, or is it JUST the Pinto.
Quote from: douglasskemp on December 06, 2007, 11:06:54 AM
Has anyone tried using a different pinion yoke? like out of an early Mustang, Mustang II or Granada 8"? I am asking, because if you wanted to swap out gears and had another third member out of a different car...
Anyway, are all the 8"s setup with the odd caps, or is it JUST the Pinto.
All 8" rears have the same pinon yoke and are all fully interchangeable. The reason the Pintos have the 'odd' caps is to make the (small) Pinto driveshaft fit onto the rear that was made for other (some bigger) cars and u-joints.
Bill