I know I saw something arou nd here about useing E85 in our Pintos But just don't know where. So here is the question: How can we convert our carbs or EFI engines over to a multi-fuel engine. Have them set up to burn both gasoline and E85 fuels? Anyone have any thoughts?
Rob ???
Rob, here are some links I found that you might want to check out. The first one you'll have to scroll down until you find the heading "the Pinto that guzzled alcohol and water" or something similar to that, the second article is more of an FYI, and the third is an actual kit you can buy to convert your car, although I could not find any information on price or availability. Hope this helps!
http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/2006_04_01_mchenrycountyblog_archive.html
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t449473.html
http://www.abcesso.com/
BGP :) :)
Thanks BGP. Anyone else want to add to the conversation? With Oil over 90.00 a barrel now even us 4 cylinder guys are going to have to start thinking about alterative fuels to keep our cars on the road. I'm going to build my motor for my 59 Ranchero as an E85 or straight alcohal motor. I want to have my Pinto able to burn E85 and/or Gasoline. I believe as a group we have a voice to get aftermarket companie to develope the parts we need. Just my 2 cents.
here is a former post about e85
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,4669.0.html
phils toys
Well Howdy all!
I just can't resist the topic here. The prices for gasoline are absurd, and it has nothing to do with environmental ( and I do emphasize "mental") savings . If any of you recall the good old ( :read:"Clean air act of 1990) and the games they played on us with Oxygenates (MTBE and the like ) you'll know that the refineries had to reconfigure every fall and spring to change "Blends". Now we have ethanol and the same lunacy applies today, only now China expects to surpass our consumption of fuel ( now it took us over 90 years to get to our current usage!) in 4 Years! It's no wonder we are getting gouged at the pump . The Oil barons are getting their way, now that the IT bubble burst, so they need to fuel their investment logic and reward mechanism.
The reality is that we are down to being put into museums as collector car owners, eventually our rides won't affordably run on the Swill that they make available. Yes, you'll need that EFI conversion and soon. In 1994 , I called TWM induction to price out a IR ( Weber replacement) Throttle bodies and plumbing with wiring and controller system. They nearly died from laughter when I told them it was a 2.0L pinto, and told me over $4K. All for a car that was sold for less than 3 grand new!
Fast forward to today, Asian kits are readily available for Honda,Toyota, Mazda, and people spend the money! If you want science and conscience, you'll be forced to upgrade.
If you wish to enjoy your ride as it was built, there aren't many options for fuel. I wonder if Nascar's use of the Racing unleaded will buy us carbureted drivers an option , but are you willing to go for $6 a gallon fuel at 108 octane?
Final note : I have a full page ad from the San Francisco Chronicle from the 1990's posted by Unocal . It says: We can make a motor fuel that will meet the Federal Clean air standards without the use of any Oxygenates. But we can't offer it because of the mandate for oxygenated Fuel in the letter of the law!
Sounds like a Corn Subsidy to me!
My Two horseshoes worth...
Pintosopher
This is ridiculus. Soon enough all stations will be ethonal and were does that leave us? Where does that leave people that can't afford(or don't want) a new car? I might as well as convert to diesel and make it run on veggie oil. There has got to be a better way. In fact, I was brainstorming a while back after the first gas hike and the thought came to mind about a vehicle powered on compressed air. It turns out tha this is a feasible idea-Caterpillar is already usng compressed air for some of their HD construction backhoes. If you think about it, all you would need is a air compressor in place of the gas tank, A modified engine head with a holding chamber per cylinder with enough compressed air to push down the cylinder, and some high-compression one way valves.....probably a lot of tinkering, but you get the idea. Not only would this eliminate the need for spark plugs, but for internal combustion all together. Downside is that you probably would'nt have wonderful battery life, and horsepower would probably be slightly sacrificed......who knows- it's a thought.
BGP
Hi Again,
Well , if the classic car lobbying groups can't get through to these meatheads in D.C. , we will wind up in a museum class of ownership. There is no logical reason to have ethanol period. But I'm ashamed to say, that I did actually Vote for the Idiot Schwartzenegger Who Is now suing the US Govt , on fuel economy environmental standards for 2009 and beyond cars. But then he was posing as a fiscal conservative, not a left wing greenie, and he backed out of our state financial quagmire and overspent again. My Bad , again proving that a man with no principals is no leader of the people.
Check out the web site; aircar.com The people of India may have this available by next year. Although I will take my explosive Pinto in a wreck compared to a major accident with highly compressed air in a on-board tank!
But then ,I'll walk before I own a Prius too :o
Yeah i voted for Arnold too...... Only because he was the lesser of 2 evils. and Mc lintock was too far behind, Didnt want Bustamonte to win..
Gas just went to $3.30 here...... $3.25 yesterday Now with that oilspill in SF its gonna get worse. :evil:
Makes me wanna errect a still in my backyard...
Steve
What about propane? Down in Australia, Ford produces cars that wil run on both propane and gasoline (or gas and petro if in Aus). How hard would a conversion for that be. Just something else to think about.
while at carlisle in 2006 i was a mustang II and a Fairmont that were run on propane they were in the burn out comp.
Phils toys
E 85 is certainly a result of the corn lobby. You will get a higher octane with e 85 but your efficiency will be lower, i.e. lower gas mileage. Ethanol is also hell on rubber, I drive a tanker and I can tell you the ethanol eats up my vapor recovery hose in the winter especially as the vapors and mostly ethanol are sucked back into the truck while I am unloading. Consider this, we import oil from backwards countries usually run by some dictator that is opposite of the American way of life, that is bad. But and it is a big butt, We are increasingly importing food from the same types of countries, like China, we have all heard of the tainted peanut butter, dogfood and toothepaste. What would you rather import food or oil? On a political note, remember that Arnold's old lady is the niece of Ted "the swimmer" Kennedy, a hardcore left winger.
Tercin
I can hardly stand to drive any of my older cars out of state due to having to buy 10% (or higher) ethanol gas. My '66 Cadillac and heck, even my '72 Oldsmobile just hate the stuff! Eventually I will have to buy a truck big enough to pull a 48 foot trailer if I want to take two cars to a show. I can't wait until all you can get is E85, and the price of food will offset any "savings" at the pump...
LBF,
Why do your cars hate the 10%? It is actually good for them. It keeps the fuel system clean. It burns slower and more completely eliminating carbon buildup. It prevents pre-ignition due to excessive carbonbuildup.
High_Horse
Quote from: High_Horse on November 30, 2007, 09:25:46 AM
LBF,
Why do your cars hate the 10%? It is actually good for them. It keeps the fuel system clean. It burns slower and more completely eliminating carbon buildup. It prevents pre-ignition due to excessive carbonbuildup.
High_Horse
I hate the 10% ethanol unleaded because my older cars run like crap with that stuff in the tank. I filled the tank in my '69 Cadillac Calais a few years ago and my carb started to leak so badly I had to push it out of my basement garage at 2am because it was filling the garage (and thus the house above it!) with fumes! I thought that the pilot light on the propane furnace was going to blow everything up! And this was a car that had zero carb problems prior to this mistake. None of my older cars run with a darn with that in the tank - and when you're in the larger cities that is usually all you can find.
LBF,
It is a known fact that alcohol will disolve fuel varnish. Back in 74 or 75 when they began furnishing fuel stations with the 10% mixture they did recommend to change the fuel filter. I at that time was driving a 64 merc. Monteray with a 352 in it. It was equipt with one of those glass bowl type fuel filters and sure as beans it plugged but it was to easy to remove on the street and blow out with a shake and a puff.
I suggest that if it was that radical of a leak all of a sudden then trash came out of the filter or dislodged from your float bowl or float and lodged in your float needle valve.
I do not want to suggest that you don't know what you are talking about. I don't even know you. I like your garage!!!!!!!!!!
But I think it is important not to indicate to any of the less experienced Pinto guys on this site that ethanol is taboo especially considering that allot of our cars are pre-75 and sitting along time and loaded with varnish.
Yes....The e85 does reduce gas milage...but that same reduction is also evident in new vehicles designed to burn it.
High_Horse
How many oxygen molecules does alcohol have???
I was hoping to get into it with you but that one threw me way off.
High_Horse
Here you go..
Alcohol Name Formula
Methyl alcohol (methanol) CH3OH
Ethyl alcohol (ethanol) CH3CH2OH
n - propyl alcohol CH3CH2CH2OH
Isopropyl alcohol (propanol -2) CH3CHOHCH3
n-butyl alcohol (butanol -1) CH3(CH2)2CH2OH
butyl alcohol (butanol -2) CH3CH2CHOHCH3
n-hexyl alcohol (hexanol-1) CH3(CH2)4CH2OH
n-heptyl alcohol (heptanol-1) CH3(CH2)5CH2OH
n-octyl alcohol (octanol-1) CH3(CH2)6CH2OH
ethylene glycol CH2OHCH2OH
glycerol CH2OHCHOHCH2OH
QuoteEthyl alcohol (ethanol) CH3CH2OH
Thank you.
So you are saying that it is perfectly ok to run in any Pinto engine without any carb work as long as the mixture does not excede E50.
High_Horse
Quote from: High_Horse on December 01, 2007, 01:45:27 AM
LBF,
It is a known fact that alcohol will disolve fuel varnish. Back in 74 or 75 when they began furnishing fuel stations with the 10% mixture they did recommend to change the fuel filter. I at that time was driving a 64 merc. Monteray with a 352 in it. It was equipt with one of those glass bowl type fuel filters and sure as beans it plugged but it was to easy to remove on the street and blow out with a shake and a puff.
I suggest that if it was that radical of a leak all of a sudden then trash came out of the filter or dislodged from your float bowl or float and lodged in your float needle valve.
I do not want to suggest that you don't know what you are talking about. I don't even know you. I like your garage!!!!!!!!!!
But I think it is important not to indicate to any of the less experienced Pinto guys on this site that ethanol is taboo especially considering that allot of our cars are pre-75 and sitting along time and loaded with varnish.
Yes....The e85 does reduce gas milage...but that same reduction is also evident in new vehicles designed to burn it.
High_Horse
Actually, I believe a gasket let lose when it was exposed to the ethanol. I'm sure the carb did need a rebuild, but the ethanol definitely helped make that a necessity. And, the old Caddy hadn't been sitting - I took a bus to Gastonia, NC and drove it back to Missouri back in Jan. of 2000. I bought it from a guy that was using it as a daily driver. My main concern is how poorly most of my cars run on ethanol. I have driven many, many miles in old Cadillacs - and they don't like running on ethanol gas.
LBF,
There is one thing that I find intriguing. Arn't all of your Caddies equipt with Rochester 4 barrels??? And please don't get me wrong. I have never enjoyed redoing and setting up a carb more then the roch 4 spread bore especially the old ones. But I find it unusual that the e10 would be so noticable. Maybe they are different carbs.
High_Horse
my 2 cents
if every one care to take the time find a alternative fuel that fits there needs. then the gas will go down for other car that still run on them. my favorites bio diesels and the ev's both the most enviralmently friendly. the only alternative fuel vehicle i have is turbo propane ranger. it isn't done yet. if u r one that care about global warming and the price of all fuels going up. then do some thing about it. just changing to Florissant light bulbs and driving ur pinto rather than ur suv or truck when ever u can.
here r some links to help.
http://www.fuelalternative-s.com/
http://retrotekspeed.com/
http://www.holley.com/division/Holley.asp look at the efi kits will bolt on in-place of carb.
Quote from: High_Horse on December 01, 2007, 08:03:44 PM
LBF,
There is one thing that I find intriguing. Arn't all of your Caddies equipt with Rochester 4 barrels??? And please don't get me wrong. I have never enjoyed redoing and setting up a carb more then the roch 4 spread bore especially the old ones. But I find it unusual that the e10 would be so noticable. Maybe they are different carbs.
High_Horse
Yes, they are all Rochesters. It does take a little more power to motivate a 7000 lbs Commercial Chassis than a standard Cadillac, so it is possible that I notice the loss of power a little more than others might - if they were driving a normal Cadillac, that is.
LBF,
Well, If you normally run hightest I could see a noticable difference but if you run regular then I couldn't imagine being able to tell.
Tangent time...I have been evaluating transport systems for my Pinto and after thinking Hurst it occured to me with some rear modification and a duelly rearend that a Hurst might make a pretty cool Pinto mothership.
High_Horse
Quote from: High_Horse on December 02, 2007, 10:27:02 PM
LBF,
Well, If you normally run hightest I could see a noticable difference but if you run regular then I couldn't imagine being able to tell.
High_Horse
You'd be surprised then.
LBF,
I have never in my life driven a Caddy Hurst.
High_Horse
Quote from: High_Horse on December 03, 2007, 05:52:04 PM
LBF,
I have never in my life driven a Caddy Hurst.
High_Horse
And you never will - 'cause it's "Hearse" not "Hurst" - unless you're talking about the brand of shifter...
Seriously, though, my older cars run like crap on 10% Ethanol gas. I do try to put premium in them but premium tends to have the ethanol in it. One of these days I'll get a flatbed that can haul a 22 foot 7500 pound Cadillac and I won't have to worry about the quality of the gas availiable on the road.