After the findings of the 289 block not being good and the threat of gas going sky high. I'm giving the idea of building the 2.0 some more thought.
what are your thoughts on rebuilding a 2.0 for power without giving up gas mileage.
what are things i can do to help the gas mileage?
and things that will hurt gasmileage?
things that will help power?
i undersand the more power= less gasmileagle.
I would like the car to be driven daily so longevity is important!
links to sites with spec's would also help.
sorry for so many Questions in one post.
pintony I Reilly would like to hear what you have to say.
thank you
Hey Pintoches,
If you are following along I am JUST NOW rebuilding my Green 72 Pinto's engine in the topic of "rod knock".
If you read through that subject, there are the answers you seek.
I am building for maximum HP while still using all factory parts.
From Pintony
i don't believe that more power MUST mean less MPG.
Quote from: srt on October 28, 2007, 03:52:32 AM
i don't believe that more power MUST mean less MPG.
Hello SRT,
I would like to read more on your idea.
In 1971 the 2.0 was supposed to put out 100hp 9.0 to 1 CR
in 1972 Ford lowered the CR to 8.2 and the engine lost 14hp
If? More CR means more efficient? Then I am on the right track to more HP and better MPG with my Green Pinto.
From Pintony
Pintony,
Yes, More CR is a path to better MPg and HP. But , that does have a price on a Non-ECU engine such as a 2.0L pre-electronic motor. Namely, the emissions suffer, and Nox rises. But , if the motor has the correct selection of internals and has properly jetted for usage ( gearing, driving style, etc,) it may be possible to actually equal the OEM emissions or do better if the parts are in balance. My 2.0L IMSA motor w/ 10:1 Trw and Mild cam , dual side draft 40's made great power, and if you kept your foot out of it, it delivered almost 25 MPG with 3:50 rear gears and 23 " diameter tires.
My goal is to actually run this engine /car combo on a California Smog Check Rolling Dyno and get the facts to rub in the bureaucrats face. I know it could pass with TWM induction and ECU, but that's a chunk of change and I have to argue the issue with a state referee.
Your Mileage and Opinion may vary, but always welcome!
Pintosopher
Hello Pintosopher,
Always GREAT to hear from you!!!
Maybe you could do a Halloween Pinto poem for everyone to enjoy?
25 mpg with side drafts is GREAT milage!!!
I am only getting about 14-15 on my trip to Ca. last year with 1 dcoe 45
I was driving for milage and only getting into boost 3psi when I had to.
Now mind you I have 4.11 gears with the T-5 speed and 22" tall tires.
The rpm was high and CR is low so I think it is NOT the best engine for the street.
I have 62cc chambers with dished Pistons. I think stock is 57cc...
I MAY change the head to a more stock version at some point to see what happens???
Anyway thank you for the advice and hope some of this info helps..
Pintoches
Quote from: Pintony on October 28, 2007, 08:34:48 AM
Hello SRT,
I would like to read more on your idea.
In 1971 the 2.0 was supposed to put out 100hp 9.0 to 1 CR
in 1972 Ford lowered the CR to 8.2 and the engine lost 14hp
If? More CR means more efficient? Then I am on the right track to more HP and better MPG with my Green Pinto.
From Pintony
i agree with Pintosopher too in that it is a combination of a lot of things that will allow you to get to your goal. "driving for mileage" has a lot to do with it. but the CR has, I think< a lot to do with it too.
Small well thought out modifications can have a greatly favorable effect on mileage. a higher CR usually means a more efficient combustion of the fuel that gets sucked into the motor. an efficient fuel/air delivery system can not hurt. (think fuel/air velocity) and an exhaust tract from valve-to-muffler that will move the spent energy out of the way of the incoming charge can only help when driven properly.
I put a turbo on my '71 a looooooong time ago. The car had the 9:1 CR (flat top pistons-"0" deck height) the cylinder head was ported (radically by a guy by the name of Jocko Johnson) ( google it)
the head also had been cut 0.060"., Compression ratio had to have been throught the roof.
now don't get me wrong here. because of the high CR i did have issues when really gettin on it in certain 'street' encounters. such as extremely high combustion chamber temps leading to melted pistons; but it was very manageable once i learned what it could and could not do
I had a ford 2 bbl carb off a 390 ci ford truck that i had jetted way down-messed with the emulsion tubes/air bleeds/squirters, etc and i took my girlfriend on a 500 mile 3 day trip through the coastal mountains of southern california and through the desert.
i didn't drive super crazy (which at that time was hard not to do) funny what a female can do without saying a word and the car gave me back just barely over24 mpg for the trip.
i remember not rreally getting into the throttle heavy but just using it to get the job done. there was a lot of judicious use of the 4 spd. instead of horse power and a lot of LOOKING at the scenery instead of saying to myself "what was that"
it can be done.
i'm rambling, sorry...it's been a long day
When I rebuilt my '73 2.0 in a wagon I spent the money ot have the engine balanced and that seemed to provide the greatest boost to the mileage. We regularly achieved 26-28 mpg on the highway.
how high can i take the CR and still run 91-93 pump gas
Pintoches,
If your motor has No MSD ( multiple spark discharge) ignition and no knock sensor controls , you'll be stuck with 92 + octane with over 9 to 9.5 to 1 compression ratio. But the type of piston ( it's material and shape) have a lot to do with when it will Ping. I ran my 10:1 Trw piston motor with a mix of Unocal 92 octane premium and Octane booster Plus a lead sustitute additive.
The valve seats and valves will have to be upgraded to operate on unleaded gas . This is a must for reliability and overheated poorly seated valves contribute to a short engine life. All of the problems with unleaded fuel and poor compatibility with valvetrain on the older motors have solutions, and since we can't run leaded fuel, we have to upgrade the internals to run with what we can buy.
This is only one approach, but it's valid..
Pintosopher
parts i have
offinhouser duel port intake (probably spell wrong)
weber crab
hooker header
need to do
CR 9.5-1
balance
harden valve seats
do i want to port the head
what kind of cam # should i use
Pintoches,
Please describe the Offenhauser split port manifold , Is it 2 or 4 Barrel design? If 4 Barrel , with a non-ported head, the engine (for street) can't use much more than 500 cfm carb, 390 cfm being ideal. If you stay with a large weber 2 barrel 38 DFAV or 38 DGAS ( non progressive type linkage) the stock intake manifold is good for around 125 HP (at the flywheel) with Cam headers, and exhaust. Holley 2bbl 350 Cfm works well with an adaptor plate to the stock manifold also.
The cam should not be a radical lift design, the followers can cause problems with high lift and the valve length becomes critical. With your planned higher CR pistons, this motor needs to be carefully matched for clearances. The standard Pinto 2.0L is a non-interference motor, meaning no bent valves should a timing belt break. That "safety feature" goes away with any cam mods. Also, high lift Cams wear out those Cam bearings faster, and will require frequent valve adjustments in addition.
More later, I'm referring to my Dave Vizard 2.0L engine book for figures.
Pintosopher
In my opinion, tho some may not agree, a rebuilt engine just doesnt ever seem to last like an original factory built engine does. Ive had a few rebuilt engines and ironically theyre the only ones that have ever blown up on me. And i am not unreasonably hard on them. What I would do personally, and what i plan on doing on my 3 pintos, is getting a 2.3 EFI Turbo engine with about 100k on it and putting it in. That will more than double your power, and you'll have the benefits of the fuel injection. No more hard starts or long warmups, great gas milage, and plenty of power. The cost wouldnt be any more than your 289 swap would be, and it would probably actualy be cheaper and easier.
Just my 2 cents tho!
what is the most you can bore a 2.0 safely?
and the most as a daily driver?
at what point do i need bigger/heaver rods?
Quote from: pintoches on November 04, 2007, 05:18:09 PM
what is the most you can bore a 2.0 safely?
and the most as a daily driver?
at what point do i need bigger/heaver rods?
Hello pintoches,
The stock rods are very strong.
I ran them in a 13sec. Pinto in the 80s.
The bigget 2.0 piston I have ever seen is+.040.
From Pintony