I could use some help. I'm new to the site and did a pretty exhaustive search of the site for answers to my questions. Unfortunately I didn't find them so I will ask here and see what happens.
I have a 78, 2.3, C4 (I think) The starter, started making noise when starting one day. I figured the bearings were going out, sent my boy to Napa for a replacement starter and my nightmare began.
This thing sounds like it is coming apart when the starter is engaged. We have found metal shavings in the bottom of the bell housing near the starter. We thought we had a missalignment. We have tried shimming, not good on Ford. We replaced the ring gear. We took the starter back thinking we got the wrong one. We took the engine out, laid it on the bench and watched the starter engage. The Shaft of the starter moves outboard, ever so slightly, when the Bendix engages. But ever so slightly can be enough.
I've seen 132 tooth ring gear, 135 tooth ring gear, long snout, short snout talked about. But I'm not convinced Napa gave us the right starter in the first place, and I'm also of the thinking there is a pitch problem with the Bendix and the ring gear. But I dont know how to figure this out.
The long snout starter is for what trans. How far past the ring gear should the snout protrude. How many teeth should be on the Bendix for the 132, for the 135 tooth ring gear.
Now, I will say, my boy when he was putting it back together the first time, he didn't know how to install the Trans/Tq Converter and at one point when he was installing the Trans, he was rockin tail around so much, I thought the vehicle was going to fall off the jack stands. Is it possible to distort the Engine/bell housing flange to cause a misalignment?
Anyone have any ideas. I'm at the point of throwing the engine away and start over. I'm just not sure what else to do
I had a similar problem with a starter on my F150... turned out they gave me a starter for an auto and mine was a stick.
but..
I would confirm which tranny you have.. c3 has 13 pan bolts and the c4 has 11.
I'm not sure if it would make any difference but you had an "I think" next to C4
Quote from: boydp on December 08, 2006, 07:02:41 PM
I could use some help. I'm new to the site and did a pretty exhaustive search of the site for answers to my questions. Unfortunately I didn't find them so I will ask here and see what happens.
I have a 78, 2.3, C4 (I think) The starter, started making noise when starting one day. I figured the bearings were going out, sent my boy to Napa for a replacement starter and my nightmare began.
This thing sounds like it is coming apart when the starter is engaged. We have found metal shavings in the bottom of the bell housing near the starter. We thought we had a missalignment. We have tried shimming, not good on Ford. We replaced the ring gear. We took the starter back thinking we got the wrong one. We took the engine out, laid it on the bench and watched the starter engage. The Shaft of the starter moves outboard, ever so slightly, when the Bendix engages. But ever so slightly can be enough.
I've seen 132 tooth ring gear, 135 tooth ring gear, long snout, short snout talked about. But I'm not convinced Napa gave us the right starter in the first place, and I'm also of the thinking there is a pitch problem with the Bendix and the ring gear. But I dont know how to figure this out.
The long snout starter is for what trans. How far past the ring gear should the snout protrude. How many teeth should be on the Bendix for the 132, for the 135 tooth ring gear.
Now, I will say, my boy when he was putting it back together the first time, he didn't know how to install the Trans/Tq Converter and at one point when he was installing the Trans, he was rockin tail around so much, I thought the vehicle was going to fall off the jack stands. Is it possible to distort the Engine/bell housing flange to cause a misalignment?
Anyone have any ideas. I'm at the point of throwing the engine away and start over. I'm just not sure what else to do
Did you starter problems start before you removed the tranny or did any other maintenance?
How many miles on the car?
Has this car had more city driving than HWY?
You say you pulled the engine out, did you mean the entire engine or the starter? Hard to tell from your wording because you would need the tranny out as well to work the starter.
What did it do with the new starter installed? (I can't tell what it did with what one from your post)
You mentioned you replaced the 'ring gear', did you mean the gear on the flexplate or the starter? How did/does the ring gear on the flexplate LOOK? If it looks worn, it will give you problems even with a new starter. If you did swap it, did you compair the two before the install? I would re-install one that was like the original one IF it was fine before your issues started.
Do the two starters LOOK the same?
I have swapped starters between 4spd and a/t cars with no issues.
Most likely you have a c-3. The only difference that I know of between the two flexplates is the T/C bolts; the c-3 has 3, the c-4 has 4.
Did you install the T/C on the tranny and THEN install it, or did you bolt the T/C to the engine first?
Bill
Hello boydp,
I have to agree with 77Turbopinto.
ALL Pinto starters will interchange.
The early Pintos have a stud that sticks out of the starter and the latter have a tab that a 8m bolt goes through.
BUT the 3 bolts to the bell house are the same from 1.6,2.0&2.3.
The V6 "AMERICAN" 2.8 uses a 2 bolt starter
Here is a photo of the V6 starter
4 cylinder starter photo
If somehow you ended up with this starter?
This MIGHT be where your problem lies...
This starter is listed for the Pinto but I have NEVER seen one...
From Pintony
Had this problem also. Be sure the dowel pins are in the block, as this indexes it to starter location. Many rebuilds use very cheap bendixes. I have used a Turbo Coupe starter on my 4 sp set-up, and it works well. That last photo that Pintony posted looks like the TC.
Hey Fast34,
That is great info!!!
I never thought about the dowls and the bell shield as a locater but that sounds like a possible motive for starter issues.
Great idea!!!
From Pintony
Yes, it could do that, and again that is something to look at.
That being said, the engine in my Bobcat had one of the "ears" for the dowel snapped off the block and no dowel on the other side, and it starts fine (only runs on 3, but it runs. parts car).
Bill
I have had problems like this..the bell housing shield should be a must..it effects the spacing ...I also had issues with Autozone starters ..their starters that are built with all new parts sometimes dont match on all cars...the casting of the nose cone is just wrong....I never had the issue with a NAPA starter. But its never too late to send it back and get another one...maybe the wrong part made it into the box...
check the nose cone and the shaft.. there is a groove to the end of the nose cone on the shaft. it should have a shim, keeper, clip, thing in that groove if its gone it can hang the starter drive on the shaft or let it travel too deep into the flywheel.
Best Of Luck
Frank
www.PintoWorks.com