Pinto Car Club of America

Welcome to FordPinto.com, The home of the PCCA => General Help- Ask the Experts... => Topic started by: dholvrsn on June 27, 2006, 05:24:08 PM

Title: steering
Post by: dholvrsn on June 27, 2006, 05:24:08 PM
What's the main difference between the power steering and regular versions of the rack and  pinion, besides the power assist? Ratios?
Title: Re: steering
Post by: wagonmaster on June 27, 2006, 06:50:33 PM
The power steering rack has a quicker ratio than the manual. If I remember properly, the manual is about 23:1, while the power rack is around 19:1. The best power rack was used on '78 Mustangs as it was a variable ratio, but they've long since been mixed in with the other units when rebuilt.
Title: Re: steering
Post by: dholvrsn on June 27, 2006, 08:09:16 PM
I was wondering because I had a '80 Pony from '80 to '92 with manual steering and recently bought a '79 wagon with power steering. I remember the '80 as handling and steering better, but that could be my embellished memory. Or maybe thicker sway bars. Or even that infamous disintegrating "rag coupling" in all those other threads.....
Title: Re: steering
Post by: goodolboydws on June 28, 2006, 10:55:29 AM
Probably the 'halo" effect in action on your memories.

You had an '80 from new? until '92.  Even then it was "just" 12 years old, so the steering might well have been a lot tighter than the very same vehicle if it were now 24 years old. Plus if it was your first onr ne of yoiur first cars,  may not have had any or enough experience with the handling of other cars prior to that one to make a baseline judgment at the time. The Pony was/is MUCH lighter than the wagon. Fot the same basic vehicle/drivetrain/steering geometry and track width combination less mass=easier control/less sway during manouvers.

Thicker anti sway bars on the wagon should actually improve front end response compared to the same vehicle with a smaller or no antisway bar. Weight distribution is completely different from the wagon to the sedans and some people generally prefer the way the sedan handles over the wagon and vice versa. 

All that being said, I still think that my '71 with manual steering (also with stiffer shocks, wider aluminum wheels, wider tires than stock and an aftermarket rear antisway bar) had the best steering FEEL AND FEEDBACK than any RWD car I've driven before or since, but they have mostly been much heavier vehicles with power steering since then, and most modern power assisted steering tends to dampen steering feel and feedback by it's very design, unless something in the system is severely worn.   

Many comparably niche marketed smaller RWD (and FWD) cars made since you stopped driving the '79 actually have "better" suspension and more feel and feedback in their power steering than it did/does. Technology moves on, and the engineers eventually learned that many people actually WANT to know what is happening between the tires and the road surface.  (Using FWD cars wouldn't be a fair comparison in terms of suspension, steering feel and feedback to RWD, but to each other then and now.)
Title: Re: steering
Post by: 77turbopinto on June 28, 2006, 01:09:54 PM
The power rack is larger (thinker in the middle) and I think the tie rods might be different. The racks should interchange as an assy., but I have never done that.

Some cars had different spindles or multiple tie rod mounting points on them, I don't think pintos did.

Bill

BTW: The stiffer the anti-sway bar on an axle (front or rear) will give less lateral traction to that axle (no other changes included). When dealing with front and rear bars, the axle with the "bigger" or stiffer bar (in relation to the cars CG, availible traction, roll centers, power, and a few other things) will be more likely to loose lateral traction. True, a stronger front bar will help if you have poor geometry (like a Pinto), but balancing the front and rear is important.  Example: If a car has a strong understeer condition, changing to a stronger front bar alone SHOULD (most cars, most of the time) make it worse.
Title: Re: steering
Post by: wagonmaster on June 29, 2006, 08:51:48 PM
Keep in mind when comparing all of this, the later Pintos are "much" heavier than the early ones. With the additional bracing built into the chassis for the heavier bumpers, the heavier bumpers themselve, the bigger crossmember that the steering rack mounts to, the addition of up over the rear axle frame members, the additional internal bracing in the doors, and the addition of more sound deadening materials to make the cars quieter added a lot of additional weight, whether it be sedan/hatchback or wagon. I had an '80 Squire that had manual steering when I got it. I hated it! Parallel parking was a big pain in the you know what!! Plus it took a lot more motion from the steering wheel to accomplish a turn. I installed a complete power steering setup from another Pinto and it changed the whole character of the car and made it much more enjoyable to drive. If someone wants to get more "feel" out of their power steering, has anyone tried the power steering regulators that the hot rod shops sell to reduce the pressure to the Mstg II/Pinto racks and, hence, increase effort a bit? I may try this the next time I do a front end mod on a Pinto and see how it works.
Title: Re: steering
Post by: fast34 on June 30, 2006, 12:15:59 PM
Those racks do in fact interchange.  You have to use the rag coupler for the P/S rack in doing so due to the shaft diameter being larger on the power unit.