I'd like to get my 71 runabout sitting a bit lower and get the suspension a little more stiff... kind of a road race type set up. What kind of products or options are available to accomplish this?
Adam
Lowering blocks and shocks for the rear, Lowered springs and shocks for the front. Huge sway bar for the front and rear.
Using lowering blocks on the rear axle can have an adverse effect on the handling of the car (roll steer), and also if not done correctly can be dangerous on top of that. Replacing or having the springs re-curved is the BEST way to go for lowering the rear.
Lowering the front can mess up the geometry as well depending on how that's done. Pintos have a front roll center that is WAY TOO LOW to start with, and just cutting the springs or installing shorter ones can make this MUCH WORSE. Drop spindles or moving the lower control arm inner mounts along with a spring change is the best way to do the front.
"Stiff" is not always the best as it MIGHT limit traction, but controlling body roll (well balanced front and rear anti-sway bars), good tires, and better shocks will go a long way. Get the tires you want to run BEFORE you do any set-up. You need to know what you are looking for as far as handling, if you set it up for one type of racing it MIGHT not handle as well in a different type. You should also look into bump steer fixes too, again depending on your goals.
Bill
Um, No, I don't think so Bill. using lowering blocks is not dangerous and works just fine. What do you mean roll? My Pangra has like No roll and could be used in SCCA all day long. Besides, if you are going to re-curve your springs, how do you know what spring rate you are getting ( or want for that matter)
Of course lowering the front can mess up the geometry, that is why you need to re-set the caster and camber. But lowering the front does not make it handle worse?? By the way Bill, did you hear this guy talking about setting his car specifically for racing? He just wanted to know how to make it " Kind of a road race type set up"
Bill, you usually give out " constructive advise". The way I took your post was you through what I had to say out the window. I stand by my post.
Brad, I did not intend to put you off or down with my reply, I hope you did not take it that way. I only wanted to present in detail my first hand knowledge and experience with Pinto chassis setup from both circle track and auto-x (as well as other cars I have built or set up).
There is a big difference between lowering a car for looks and making it handle better; I have seen people request info for both.
I might have gotten over technical too, sorry.
To answer your questions in your last post:
I did not say that the USE of lowering blocks was unsafe, but I HAVE seen cars lowered with them in an unsafe way. I will provide details if you want.
Yes, Body roll. Having some is needed, but a car needs to be balanced to handle it's best. Too big of a rear bar, too soft rear springs, or too small of a front bar CAN make a car have a severe over-steer condition.
If you were asking about roll steer, it is when the rear axle is torqued into steering the rear of the car during accelerating or braking (the reason the shocks are mounted the way they are is to help limit this). Lowering blocks can increase roll steer by providing more mechanical advantage of the axle to the spring.
As far as the rear springs, I said you can HAVE them re-curved, I did not say do them yourself. There are companies that will re-curve them and be able to do it with a particular rate. You can re-build them yourself and change the rates, but mostly by trial and error (for me it was mostly error).
Yes, you can re-set the caster/camber BUT that is not the geometry (my bad, I should have worded that better). Unless the roll center is moved up the car CAN be and handle worse. As the stock Pinto suspension travels upwards (compression), it looses neg. camber exponentially. When the car is lowered with cut or shorter springs, the new 'starting point' is further into the 'bad' side of that curve, and will get worse faster (it will loose more neg. camber for the same travel). You CAN comensate for this with stiffer springs or front sway bar, but it is better to change to roll center.
My comment on the "type of racing" was just to state that if the car is set up for drag racing, it will not handle as well in for road racing as well as other types. I see cars from time to time with drag set-ups at auto-xes, and the owners wonder why it won't handle well, as well as see cars otherwise set up for auto-x but have huge drag tires on the rear.
Bill
in '71 i changed the arm locating points in the front suspension and utilized a very stiff coil originally designed for a chevelle if i remember correctly the spring as installed ended up at near stock pinto length i also used a 1 1/8 dia anti sway bar up front, koni shocks and in the rear i had the stock springs removed, and re arched to lower the rear and also it was a single leaf setup. no sway bar at the rear. up mountain roads the car was damn near neutral in almost all situations. pinion angle can also have a big effect on the way the earlier cars handled