If a mustang fan saw this I would be burned at the stake ;D
I just bought a 77 cruising wagon w/2.3 and auto and I have a 76 Mustang w/2.8 and auto.
The mustang is shot except the drive train, Motor, Tranny, Etc. work and run excellent w/under 80,000 miles. It's been sitting for years now and I don't have any interest in restoring it.
I would however consider replacing the 2.3 in the pinto w/the 2.8 in the mustang
Does anybody have any idea the process required to do this conversion?
What would have to be salvaged/changed for it to work?
Thanks :o)
Hello Cookieboy,
If you have both cars then you should not have too much problem.
I would say that on a scale 1-10 this should be a 5 if you have basic knowledge of mechanics.
From Pintony
nice to hear Pintony,
No one seems to bother with this swap, Mostly V8's and Turbos. I've just started to think about doing something like that. Have the mustang and not sure what to do with it.
I just wonder if anyone has done this swap or could guess on what the best route to go would be? would I have to pull the engine and tranny from both cars? Do I have to change the whole drive train from front to back? What parts would be needed from the mustang? I have very basic skills when it comes to working on cars and would be paying someone else to do the work but if they would let me I would help.
and.... I could make it even more interesting. I have another 76 mustang with a seized 2.8 and the 4-spd tranny option vs. the auto. I would really rather have a 4-spd!!! the advantage to the mustang w/auto is that I know it all works and excellent at that.
and one more choice.... I know someone with a 2.3 turbo with a rebuilt turbo just before it was pulled, ran excellent but wanted a big v8 instead. He has all the electronics and access to most if not all the parts needed engine wise.
for now.... I am planning on just getting the wagon running excellent. I have been told the motor and tranny were rebuilt 25,000 miles ago. And, for some reason they replaced the head gasket. While that was being done they shaved the heads and I was told the pistons looked great. It's getting a reman carb installed tomorrow, it was spewing gas out the top when it ran.
If all goes well with the new carb I should have a decent ride. I have a bunch of things in mind for the pinto and by next summer I should have most of that done. Needs fit and finish work, fresh coat of paint and a little interior work and I'll be happy.
but I still can't help but wonder.... v6, 4-spd, auto, turbo.... the possibilities are endless
Cookieboy,
Based on all of the facts provided I will make my suggestions to you.
First and formost you are a Pinto owner. Take good care of your car. Second you are an enthusiastic Pinto owner. Don't get carried away with starting something that you do not have the expertise to finish correctly (unless you are filthy rich). Be informed that much of the project retoric that you read about on this web site is being undertaken by extremely skilled,cabable and competant indiviguals. I personally suggest that you channel your enthusiasm into keeping your Crusing wagon Shiny,dry and in good roadworthy repair. I agree with the Paint,carb and interior work.
The 2.3 is a good engine. The head gasket was probably replaced because of a breach between cylinders or a breach in the back driver corner oil passage( the 2.3 engine has one of the best oil pumps I have ever seen in an engine). Also, I am an automatic kinda guy. Shifting is nice but there is nothing wrong with an automatic.
High_Horse
Thanks Hign Horse, I agree that getting it road worthy is my main concern at this point. I was just curious about the 2.8 conversion because I have it and runs so nice. Just not sure I want to tackle it and still would like to have the info on what would be required to do the swap. After getting the info I have requested on the process involved (doesn't need to be detailed just the basics) I will then be able to decide if I should keep the mustang for a later day project or sell it for money to fix up the pinto and get it out of my life and yard.
My goal for this pinto is to get it fixed up for a semi daily driver as it's not origional and has high miles. Later and I'm still looking.... for a low milage pinto wagon in origional condition for show and to have. I haven't had a pinto/bobcat in about 13 years (since the divorce) but that has changed, I loved each of the pintos/bobcats I had in my younger days and was just a matter of time before I got a couple to fill the void. I'm not filthy rich but can afford to buy toys if I want them.
I would still appreciate it if someone could make suggestions on the process involved (doesn't need to be detailed just the basics) on doing the 2.8 conversion.
Thanks ;D
The biggest drawback to the v-6 conversion is the lack of cool aftermarket parts. But i like the v-6, and from what the ranger guys are telling me is the 70's 2.8's that came in the pinto and musty 2's were the ones to use if you were to do a v-6.
As far as putting it into your 4 cyl car, It isnt that difficult. You would need a different radiator as the inlet and outlet are on opposite sides, unless you are really good at making custom radiator hoses, I had to make a custom hose for the bottom hose and it took $40+ dollars worth of hoses to make one. The driveshaft is shorter for the v-6 in a pinto, I'm not sure if the musty2 v-6 driveshaft is the same as the pinto, I had to cut a 4cyl one down and reweld it for my car but it didnt come with a driveshaft. The speedo cable should be the same. The engine stands can be used from the musty 2, but they may need slight tweeking. Depending on what carb you use you may need a different throttle cable.
If you have emissions testing crap in your area, you may have some fun matching up wiring, but if you dont have to worry about that, the engine wiring will be simple, the duraspark from the 4 banger will plug right into the v-6 plugs on the distributor. Other than that I cant think of any other complications other than exhaust routing.
If you are wanting the 4spd, you would need the pedal assembly from a stick pinto and clutch cable, not sure what you would need for driveshaft here, though. Some day hopefully I will find out thru experience.
Please keep me in mind if you would like to part with the v-6 manual tranny. I really want to acquire one, but the only ones I have found were more than I wanted to spend.
Out of all the conversion options you listed, the v-6 automatic tranny swap would be the easiest. Racer walsh has a couple cool cams for the 2.8, 2 choices of intakes 2 or 4 bbl. They also offer a high energy ignition system for it as well.
I like to be different from what every one else has, So i play with the v-6's. But if you are looking to go fast really fast. then stick with the 2300, there are so many parts available for it, and very few choices for the v-6.
Plus v-6's seem to like to eat head gaskets. But every time some ijit looks under my hood and asks me how i got a 302 in there it is worth it. Im ignorant like that, I dont tell them its a v-6 either. One of the neighbors is still trying to figure out how im getting away with running a 302 in the 6 cyl class. It is so hard to keep a straight face sometimes.
But seriously if you decide against the 4 spd, keep me in mind.
Hey Dirt Track Demon, Thanks for the info... that's what I was looking for ;D
Let's see if I got it right....
1) would need the engine and tranny from the Mustang. Tranny is different for 6 cyl and 4 cyl?? Right?
2) motor mounts from the Mustang would be used w/tweeking
3) What about the tranny mount??? nothing mentioned here.
4) Radiator swapped out/replaced
5) Drive shaft may need to be customized
6) no major wiring issues
7) exhaust issues/routing
8) Nothing was mentioned about rear end... could I use the stock pinto w/o issues???
Sounds simple if one can consider a swap simple. I would consider the preformance parts you mentioned. Not looking for racing preformance but might as well get a little extra. Like you I like to stray from the norm and the 2.8 swap would be right up my alley.
I doubt I would do the 4-spd conversion... just adds to much to the build. But there are other issues w/the 4-spd that remove it from consideration, to make a long story short after the motor seized and was parked someone (Not ME) pushed the car about 60 feet into the woods/swamp with the tranny in second gear. At first I thought the car had been stolen but about a year later someone spotted it back in the woods. It has been sitting there for about 4-5 years now and has sunk into the ground bad enough that we are still trying to figure out how to get it out.
The only reason I kept the car is that the interior is in mint condition. I'm going out to the place it's stored at this weekend with some friends to see if we can figure out how to get it jacked up and put tires on it. if we can get tires on it we should be able to rescue it but doubt the tranny would be of any use. I will keep you in mind and if we pull the tranny and I'm not using it you have first dibs.
Thanks for the info... Brian
Hmm good question on the tranny. Both 4 bangers and sixes used either c-3 or c-4. So im wondering what the difference is that makes a different driveshaft required. The difference may be in the bell housing itself rather than the tranny. I think I had to cut about 3 to 4 inches out of my d-shaft. As far as mounts go, you may have to make a homegrown one, you may not.
If the automatic you are planning on using is for the 4 cyl, you will need a v-6 bell and torque converter. Does anyone else know about the tranny stuff?
The rear end will be fine for a stock powerplant. If you have the rear end that has the bolts on the front of the housing, instead of on the rear: you have the good one anyway.
I wonder too on the tranny issue if they can both use the same trans.... perhaps I can bolt the V6 to the tranny in the pinto and just swap bellhousing and such. Then changing driveshaft and rearend wouldn't be necessary. This could make the swap MUCH! easier.
The mustang has a V6 w/Auto and The Pinto has a 4cyl with auto. Guess I need to find out which trans each has, c3 or c4
I looked and the bolts on my rearend are towards the back :o(
Swapping the 2.8 into your pinto should just be a matter of swapping the motormounts out of the M2 and into the pinto, you *should* be ok with the pinto trans x-member, and if the M2 has an 8" rear end (no bolts on the back) swap that too. I'm not sure if the 2.8 will kill the smaller pinto rear end, but every 2.8 pinto i've ever seen has an 8" rear, so ford must have done it for a reason.
Wiring for the ignition/sending units should be plug and play
Another thing is you *may* need to swap the coil springs. dunno if ford used different springs or not.
and if the auto behind the 2.8 is a c3, I have a driveshaft out of a 76 2.8 c3 bobcat wagon that i'll let go for $25 plus shipping.
-Harry
Thanks Harry,
If all I had to do was swap motors, mounts, and bell housing this is starting to sound like a real possibility and not to difficult.
Question on rear ends... would the 8 inch rear end swap right in without mods and if it does I wonder if the driveshaft that's in it now would just bolt right up? or is there an adapter to mount it to the rear end? thought I saw somplace or a reference to an adaptor for the drive shaft when changing rear ends....
Also... is there an easy way to tell the difference between a C3 and a C4 tranny??
I'll be checking the rear end on the running mustang next time I go to where it's stored. Was there yesterday and forgot to but was more concerned with the other mustang that we are gonna save from the woods/swamp. I started it up and it still sounds good... even considering it has only been started twice in the last few years. Also has air conditioning... not sure but seems to blow cool air.
I got this message from Pinto53 and thought I should include his message in this thread as others interested in this topic might gain knowledge from it. I also included my response....
Quote from: pinto53 on June 27, 2006, 08:53:22 AM
some of the tranny's will have a diffrent slip yoke from the v6 to the 4 cyclinder and the bell housing is diffrent also starter is on driver's side on v-6's would be intrested in the stangII's when you swap everything out the 8 in should go right in with out any change other than new U-bolts if the old are rusty I have put 4's in the place of 6's with out much problems
and my response...
Thanks pinto53,
I want to see if I can leave the original tranny (whichever it is C3 or C4) in the pinto and just change the bell housing and such. I realize that to do this I would have to have the same tranny in both.
If I have to change engine and tranny then yes, drive shaft and rear end swap would be done too. But it would be easier and quicker to leave the original tranny, drive shaft and rear end if possible and just connect the V6 right up. I"m not looking for race car performance just think the extra power would be nice.
A few have expressed interest in the stangs or parts after I pull the parts I want but all should consider....
1) I know this would be a project for next year or possible the year after. I have a rebuilt motor and tranny in the pinto now so it doesn't have to be done anytime soon or done at all. Just considering the options for now and trying to decide if I should keep the mustang that runs....
2) The Mustang w/the 4 spd has a bad motor and the entire drive train is most likely shot. It has been sitting in the woods/swamp for appox 5 years now and has sunk into the ground more than half way up the tires. During wet seasons this car has been sitting in water, most of the times I have been back there I was walking in water. It's dry right now and only a little damp but we have gotten a lot of rain in the last couple days and suspect the water is back. I haven't tried to open the door but suspect they wouldn't open due to how far it has sunk in. I did open the hood and all I see is rust.... all over every thing. Pulling this one out will probally cause major damage to the underside so I would warn all.... don't expect much from this one, I'm not :o)
3) the Mustang w/V6 and Auto (has AC and I think it may still work, not cold but seems cool) could be restored in it's current condition, interior is in fair condition, body has lots of rust but could be restored, motor, tranny and drive train are all good, I would guess that in the right person's hands this car could be road ready and driveable for under $500.00 as the only thing keeping it off the road is the brakes, They need to replaced all the way around, new brake lines and master cycl. Ugly but drivable if the brakes get fixed. I have owned this one for appox 6 to 7 years and I haven't even put 200 miles on it. It just sat in my garage until this spring. I was just going to get rid of it as I don't have as much interest in redoing the mustang but a friend convinced me to keep it... Pinto I will do, the mustang just needs to much work for me. I have appox $1200 invested in it and if I can use the parts off it for the pinto I might get some of my investment back. I doubt anyone would consider giving me $1200 for it in it's current condition. If I were to sell this one I would prefer to sell in one piece and would be happy to include the dead one after I get the parts off it that I do want.... I would only consider selling parts off the running one after I start stripping the parts I want.... and that will not happen this year.
Thanks to all for the info... if anyone has other suggestions please keep them in the thread as others may gain knowledge for their own projects....
Brian aka Cookieboy
A c-13 will have 13 bolts on the oil pan, a c-4 will have 11.
As far as front springs go, if you are planning on using the air conditioning you will need the heavier springs. I was cross referencing part #'s at autozone some 4cyl cars and v-6 cars used the same springs, the main difference was the a/c factor. Hope this helps.
Very Helpful Info.... I needed this.... Many Thanks ;D
"A c-13 will have 13 bolts on the oil pan, a c-4 will have 11"
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that a C-4 is not a C-4 and same goes for a C-3. There are different valve bodies for the 4-cyl, V6, and V8, for that matter. Also, the governor has different weights on it, depending on engine, which can change the shift characteristics of the tranny. As far as getting the engine into the Pinto, it's a piece of cake! My memory isn't real strong on this one, but I believe the metal stanchions that bolt to the frame rails on the Mustang II and Pinto for the V6 are different. In the Ford parts books they are a different part number. Best bet would be to get a pair from a parted Pinto. The mounts are easy to come by new. The Mstg II 8-inch is a direct bolt it to the Pinto. The accelerator cables are different, but they do come up on eBay occasionally. I've had four wagons with the V6 and I happen to like them. If you have any questions about these or need photos of an installed V6, let me know.
Thanks 79panel,
hadn't thought of that... I see now it would be important to keep motor and tranny matched up. Nice to confirm that rear end swap would be simple. Now just have to worry about motor and tranny mounts as well as drive shaft....
It looks like at this point I would need motor, tranny, rear end from the mustang. Need to get motor mounts, ?possibly tranny mount? and drive shaft for the pinto or at the very least modify these parts from the mustang/pinto to work for the swap. I haven't forgotten about radiator, exhaust, accelerator and all the other misc. little items. Right now just trying to consider the major parts w/drivetrain.
ARGGG!!! I wish I had the skills and tools to do this on my own but would have to pay someone to do the major part of this build/swap. I quit working on my cars almost 10 years ago and just pay to have them fixed now. I used to swap motors and trannys in my younger days but the people I used to do that stuff with had most of the knowledge and I just helped. Beginning to think "shinny, clean and in good running condition" is the easiest and best way to go for now. Just have to get motivated to relearn all I have forgotten in the last 10 years and get my fingers dirty again. The Pinto does motivate me to do this... just have to git-r-done :D