Here is a pic of my 72, with a 2.5 turbo motor.
That was one of the cars that made me want to build a turbo Pinto.
looks good, but what can it do?
What can it do........hmmm well other than look good Its sure fun to drive. Im sure you mean, How quick is it. well I can tell you Im not really sure becouse I have not made a "FULL" pass hooked and on the NOS. But with a tire spinning 2.1 60 and clicking it off at 3/4 track It ran a 11.8 @ 115. The car should turn a 1.6 60ft on a good track, that puts it at about a 10.8 1/4 and about 122 ish mph. Its a fun street ride ;D
Ive had your Turbo Pinto web pages in my "Favorites" for over a year now. Fun and helpful to read. Hopefully by this time next year Ill be driving around in a turbo Pinto, too.
Must go like snot!!! Very cool.
Even if it doesn't go like snot, it's the right color... LOL! Sorry about that Dude, just picking at ya. That an Esslinger head?
Pick away........ Yes thats an Esslinger Midget Head with a 580x234 Roller cam.
Hey Brad. I recently bought a 72 sedan and want it to run strong. I have zero experience with turbos, so for me to do it myself, I'll just be reinventing the wheel (with MANY mistakes along the way). I have been thinking about a bolt in motor from esslinger. What's your take on this idea? BTW Your black 289 pinto would also be in my garage but I live in south Fl. and the transport fee would double the price of the car.
Brent
fourtooneq@aol.com
Brent, I would love to have an Esslinger bolt in motor but their quite expencive. I think the 2.8 all Aluminum motors are about $25,000 now. BTW The Esslingers shop burned almost to the ground on Fathers Day so getting a motor would be real tough for a while. Are you thinking about an EFI system , Carb set up or what? Turbo vs non turbo w/ Nos?
Brad
Yeah, that's a little (HA) rich for my blood. Didn't you grow up with them. Ya think they could cut you a break. I want it to run like a scalded as- dog, low 10's, in to the 9's would be ideal. Streat worthy of course! Na, I'm not asking for to much lol. The turbo/nos route is appealing to me for obvious driveability reasons. Again, NO experience with either causes me to be sceptical in my ability. I have had exp w/351M-400 though (77 Ranchero) which has me lean towards the 351 V8 swap - which I understand is NOT an easy task. I've been told the 302 will bolt right in even down to the motor mounts. I just don't know if it would get the job done for what I'm looking for. As you can see it's all up in the air at this point. Please Advise :-\
Brent, Its hard to realy advise you on what to spend your hard earned $$ on. For me, i'ts all about something that is not popular. This is a hobby and If it takes 2 Mo's to fab something thats trick, thats what I like. My 289 Is a fun car to drive and sounds great but the 2.5 is a wicked ride and is fun to talk about. The 2.0 turbo cars are all together different. something I would not do is stuff a Big block in the front, Its just my preference BUT I would stuff a 2.3 or 2.0 non turbo mechanical injected/Nos motor that spun in the high 9000 rpm's with a richman 6 speed behind it and lighten the car up to about 1900 lbs... ;D. Remember, Pintos and high torque dont mix real well, so a High Hp low torque motor makes them happy. just my 2c Brad
Anyone know a reputable shop near Philadelphia that might be able to do a transplant from a turbo Thunderbird into a Pinto?
I'm selling my 1996 Mustang GT (too expensive to upgrade to a fun level) with the idea of having a fun sleeper, and a turbo pinto sounds like just the thing.
Brad, I've always been drawn to the path less traveled as well. Just the thought of having a four that will spank all but the absolute nastiest V8's gets me all worked up, hence the interest in esslinger. The negatives of a V8 in a pinto are numerous, but it's what I know. My 72 has the original 2.0 in it now. I'm assuming you can pull more HP out of the 2.3. Is there a particular 2.3 that would work best for the non turbo mech. inj. nos set up?
If I were doing it I would start with a late model ranger motor ( all aluminum). Now thats light. re-work the head with big valves port work and a BIG roller cam and adj. cam pulley. I dont know what intake system I would use but I would do a direct port Nos system. Thats a good question, I'll hafto think about that more....................
Hmmmmmm
I have a Ranger.
Would it be feasable to swap blocks with the wagon and throw the 8 sparkplug head on the iron block for the ranger?
I just thought about it and the down time would kill me. Id be better off getting another engine.
Brent have you checked out http://www.turboford.org/
?
Brad, What are the pros/cons for this type of set up as apposed to a turbo? Is that type of 2.3 really going to carry me into the 9's provided I can get it to hook up and go staight? :o
Brett, you would need aprox 400 hp in a car weighing 2000 lbs to turn a 9.99 1/4 mi time. As we know although, this is therory, becouse many factors then come into play. areodynamics for one is a killer in a pinto. Basicly a brick is the same as a Pinto's front end at about 100 mph and over. Then there is the hook. for every 10th you spin you loose about 2/10ths at the big end or visea versa. So If you can manage a 1.7 60ft, which would be doing good for a pinto your loosung about 6/10ths off your et becouse what you really need to run in the 9s is about a 1.4 60 ft. So now your 9.99 is + 6/10s or 10.59 and then you add in the aero . Now you need alot more HP to push the wind. My guess is about 750+ HP, of corse now you are trying to get it hooked and so on and etc. Dont get discouraged though, it,s a big task.
Hey Brad, Daunting task indead, but I know this isn't going to happen over night. I really appreciate you taking the time out to help.
Brad, Your sprayed turbo 2.5 is humpin it in to the mid 10's - have you had it on the dyno yet? Like I've said, I'm from the school of V8's where bigger is better, so is it realistic to aim for 750 HP out of a mech. inj. 2.3 non turbo? Or might it be easier to pull that much power out of a bigger motor?
Brent
Brett, I had it on the dyno about 1 1/2 year ago before I modifyed the fuel/intake system. It would run lean at anything above 5000 rpm so we would shut it down at 5500 to save the motor. Best dyno with no spray was 340 Hp. Probably a few more HP in there if I had the fuel system working correctly and I could have buzed it up another 1500 rpms. Esslinger's Midget motor puts out about close to 300 hp at about 7000 rpm. Its 161 cu inch which is about 2640 cc's.
I know they can do a 3.0 L motor which is 183 cu inch so we can say about 340 hp ( not bad). Spray it and add about 100 hp now your at 440. This does fall short of the 700+ range but its probably more " usable" HP. The cost would be im guessing.......30k ish
You could build a 440 Hp 418 ( stroked 351) for about 20 K. Again I didnt answer you question but It something to think about.
What happens to a piston when a cylinder runs lean.
Take a look
How to fix the lean condition. A new style lower intake manifold.
Here is a Pic of the trunk.
the Intake side
what are you doing with the green '72? Just holding on, or are you gonna race it?
With all that SHINEY you know it's GOTTA be quick!!
Im doing a bunch to this car. The biggest thing is Im moving away from the EFI system and going to Carb it. It ought to be interesting to say the least...... :o
Well, Im starting the rebuild on the 2.5 engine. Here is a pic of the block, windage trey crank etc.
As far as the head is. I replaced one exhaust valve in the #1 cyl and cleaned it up on the mill.
BTW, this is why the engine was tore down. The #1 piston did not like the lean condition............... >:(
Here is the spec's on the piston's I will be using. Its a custom order from JE.
I am swapping over to a carb/turbo setup. this is the intake side. I will be fabbing up a crossover manifold.
I will also be using an electramotive crank fire ignition. here are some of the parts.
Brad,
That looks like a HIGH DOLAR crank.
What is the C.I. on your green Pinto?
From Pintony
The C.I is 155.55
Well, Its time to install the engine. First, I need to make sure my new pistons are the correct distance in the hole.
A closer look at the piston. I spent some time smoothing out all the sharp edges on the piston relief notches
So, the engine is in the car, It went smooooooothly.
I knoe some of you guys wanted a picture of how I did my motor mounts. Here is the passanger side.
Here is the drivers side.
Im doing some mock- up for the induction.
Intake side mock-up
Carb side
So, the question........ A, 4bbl carb OR.............
OR, a Side Draft 48mm Webber.........OR.................
OR.......48mm up-draft Webber
Hey Brad, glad to see you back at it with the green car! I like the weber side draft....but i really like the EFI thing, what will you be doing with the old EFI set up? I may be interested in it, whatcha got? LOL I'm considering building a 2.3 turbo instead of the 302 single turbo..the price of gas.....space for tubing, cooling ect. What does Esllinger want for one of they're "nash" aluminum heads (Arca is way more then i would need!) with big valves and the .585 .585 lift cam...any idea? I'd be looking for about 500hp at the crank, all boost no nitrous. I would also use the megasquirt efi with megaspark timing control, no more EEC based fuel injection for me.....and no more vam or mass air meter... all controlled via laptop.
Hey Brad,
Looks like a tough choice.
I did not know the 48 dcoe looked so much different than the 40-45.
Thanks for the great shots.... Might want to work on the horns...
NOT too SHINNEY ;D
From Pintony
P. S. Wish I knew you were considering a 4V carb I saw a turbo 4V intake on ebay few weeks back.
Jeff, I am selling ALL my EFI stuff. I will gather a list of components I have and let you know.
Quote from: Pintony on August 27, 2005, 08:26:08 PM
Hey Brad,
Looks like a tough choice.
I did not know the 48 dcoe looked so much different than the 40-45.
Thanks for the great shots.... Might want to work on the horns...
NOT too SHINNEY ;D
From Pintony
P. S. Wish I knew you were considering a 4V carb I saw a turbo 4V intake on ebay few weeks back.
Tony, this is NOT the shiney stage of things. I will be doing a all Black and Chrome engine theme on this car. As far as the hornes goe's, Yes I was thinking about your set up and I think you really need the Velocity Stacks on your webber. They are really needed for a proper tune up.
Brad -sounds like you are a talented fab and wrench man! I'm interested in the cost of some of these tricked out motors, too. I am unique in that I too like to go fast, but only at a reasonable cost. I see way too many guys spending the cost of a house on some car that still doesn't even put it on the radar when it come to national speed or et and records.
Too many other diversions out there. I have an old '80 model that I pulled out of an old weedy yard, missing some parts, now found, and I would like to know what you recommend for a fun rebuild on it. 2.3 of course, and I am entertaining a turbo. Do you really need a turbo crank, or can you get by with stock? And it seems to me that the head is the path to power, and what is a good source for these heads and turbo pieces? I am not interested in going broke, but I will have some cash for fun!
Hi, I´m from ARGENTINA and I´m building my Ford TAUNUS which has the 2.3 engine, I´m going to turbocharge it, i have many things as forjed cranckshaft, carrillo rods, WEBER 48IDA,etc. I congratulate for your work and for choosing this engine to race. I have a doubt what kind of clutch do you use??. I have a manual transmission and I will buy a Twin-disc(let say 3 discs, I´don´t know how you call it) because many said that it´s the only one which can support the HP
(http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/5199/dsc000669in.th.jpg) (http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000669in.jpg)
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2533/parlante0528vs0nf.th.jpg) (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=parlante0528vs0nf.jpg)
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4107/10032851sv.th.jpg) (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10032851sv.jpg)
this is an old picture
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3740/dsc000134fb.th.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000134fb.jpg)
I´d like to have more info about 2.3 engine, if anybody wants to talk with me mondinobiker@hotmail.com
I have been working on the 2.5 and here are a few pic's of the alt brackets.
front view
top view
lower bracket.
Intake mock up and ignition.
Intake system.
crank triger.
I ported the intake so that # 1 and # 4 cyl. will get the most volume.
Here is a pic of the turbine shaft back from the balancer.
Note the material ground off the impeller. Look at the "C" area.
Wow, thats some amazing stuff Brad! When you're done, I'm sure it will be fast AND shiney!
Earlier in this thread you showed a pic of your bottom end/windage tray. It looks like the tray mounts directly to the crank retainers? Is this something unique to the aluminum block, or a modification you made? Racer Walsh carries a windage tray that bolts to their special crank bolts, which means you can't stud the bottom end and use their tray. They claim 10+ hp using the tray so it would be worth the $$ to have one I suppose.
Quote from: DragonWagon on December 27, 2005, 01:53:11 PM
Wow, thats some amazing stuff Brad! When you're done, I'm sure it will be fast AND shiney!
Earlier in this thread you showed a pic of your bottom end/windage tray. It looks like the tray mounts directly to the crank retainers? Is this something unique to the aluminum block, or a modification you made? Racer Walsh carries a windage tray that bolts to their special crank bolts, which means you can't stud the bottom end and use their tray. They claim 10+ hp using the tray so it would be worth the $$ to have one I suppose.
The Block is a 94 Ranger cast Iron block. The Crank has an Esslinger stud kit and uses main cap straps with drilled and taped inserts in them to attach the windage tray. Yeah, the extra 10 hp is worth it for sure.
Quote from: pintoguy76 on December 27, 2005, 06:31:37 PM
Any idea what kinda of horsepower a stock ranger 2.5 crankshaft will take? They make any 2.5 forged pistons? the pin location is bound to be different on the 2.3 and 2.5s, unless they use shorter rod with the 2.5. In which case what kind of HP will the 2.5 rods take, and do they make aftermarket ones? This may be the wrong place to ask, but i dont know anyone else dealing with 2.5s and 2.3's
Actually, the Crank I am using is a stock ( polished and balanced ranger 2.5 crank. I have abused the bottom end to the tune of about 400 hp with no probblems. For pistons I am using JE Forged pistons with a 5.4 Rod. Crower makes about any rod you want.
Quote from: turbopinto72 on December 27, 2005, 09:30:40 PM
The Block is a 94 Ranger cast Iron block. The Crank has an Esslinger stud kit and uses main cap straps with drilled and taped inserts in them to attach the windage tray. Yeah, the extra 10 hp is worth it for sure.
Ah, could of sworn it was cast aluminum looking at the pic ::) guess I need new glasses!
I'm in the process of tearing down an '86 turbo t-bird motor, and haven't quite decided if I want to keep the stock rod length (updated to Crower of course), 5.5 rods, or go for broke and swap the crank/pistons/rods for a 2.5 setup. My goal is a solid 300+ hp on pump gas. What's your opinion on street drivability/dependability between a turbo 2.3 with enough boost to meet this goal vs a 2.5 turbo with not as much boost needed.
I would guess that the 2.5 would have more lower rpm torque but cost a bit more to accomplish.
I'm trying to keep the cost within reason, but still trying to decide how much fun I'm willing to pay for.
Nice!
I had forgotten all about this one.
BTW if anyone is interested. My turbo is a T3/TO4B Hybrid special. It consists of the following. T3 turbine stage 3 wheel with a .63 A/r, and a TO4B compressor with a TO4E/super 60 trim wheel.
Just thought I would post some pics of the latest stuff. I got the intake on and installed a small diverter in the plenum.
Installed the radiator.
Got the Weld wheels for the rear on.
Made an crank case/valve cover breather.
what size wheel/tire are those
That is a 15X7 wheel with a 255-70-15 tire.
Have you made any updates to the car? I really liked watching it progress. Id also like to see what kind of power it makes. Good looking car you did a real nice job on it so far. :hypno:
Update: I have the carb etc. done and mocked up. Here are the early pictures of how the sidedraft will look.
you are an awesome craftsman thanks for the update its looking good.
Thanks for the comments. I don't have much time these days and I have been spreading it between the Green car and the Black car........ :o
Hello Turbopinto72,
Your 2.3 carb conversion is coming along nicely....
Keep us posted.
From Pintony
Tony, here is my carb conversion update. I blame it ALL on Jeff, because he is a BAD influence on me.
I worked at Ak Miller Garage back in the early 70's and built almost every single one of the Pangra cars that were built. (except for interior work and body work). At that time I had a '71 2.0 with the german 4spd trans, 3:55 rear gear, Continental 185/70-13 radials (nothing to chose from in those days!) and a 3" exhaust from the turbine outlet to the muffler at the rear. 1/4 mile times thru the muffler and never getting over 6500rpm and never getting out of 3rd gear:between 13.4's - 13.7's at 100 to 104 mph. I won a TON of street races with that thing. I wish at the time that I had available the technology of today.
Quote from: srt on July 15, 2006, 10:07:35 AM
I worked at Ak Miller Garage back in the early 70's and built almost every single one of the Pangra cars that were built. (except for interior work and body work). At that time I had a '71 2.0 with the german 4spd trans, 3:55 rear gear, Continental 185/70-13 radials (nothing to chose from in those days!) and a 3" exhaust from the turbine outlet to the muffler at the rear. 1/4 mile times thru the muffler and never getting over 6500rpm and never getting out of 3rd gear:between 13.4's - 13.7's at 100 to 104 mph. I won a TON of street races with that thing. I wish at the time that I had available the technology of today.
We need to talk............. ;D
Hey Brad,
I you get the chance to speek with SRT take good notes for me...
I'll be behind the GYM smoking cigarettes... cutting class.... ;D
From Pintony
I have a few update pics. Here is the final version of the TB adapter.
Just one more. I am working on the Megasquirt unit. I will be posting a full schematic of all the wiring it takes to set up a megasuirt EFI system and interface with Pinto wiring.
i am going to make it a point to get down SD way later this year I would really like to see your cars
Turbopinto72 check your e-mail. I have to go to work. I will be at work until 11pm
May I ask why the throttle body is being used before the turbo instead of after? Just curious, I've never noticed one that way before.
:wow: give us an update
Well, I've been working slooooooooly on this car. I have some up dates. The engine management system is installed and the car is just about ready to fire up. This picture is what the finished engine looks like from the intake side..
Here is the exhaust side of things
One from the front.
Here is a tight shot on the intake side. you can see I modified the fuel rail to accept fuel from both ends.
A tight shot of the mega-squirt system installed in the glove box. and one shot showing it in relation to the interior. Next, I will be setting the VE values and starting my tune up ( wish me luck.... :P )
good luck with it Brad! And what do you mean its all my fault!
Jeff, how hard is it to set the VE values? ( and make it run). I have calculated 2 scenarios and both tables look ( ok ? ) but very different. As this is a speed density unit, based off the RPM and MAP sensor and ( not ) the O2 ( used for idle and cruse only ) I will concentrate on Idle and then Stolic at the different fuel curves. ( How hard could that be............ :o ) ;D
i didn't make it that far with mine Brad, i sold all three before i even got to play with them. Find somebody who has one running (turboford.org) and ask for their tables to start out with... thats how alot of people start (thats what i was going to do)
Quote from: 78pinto on December 04, 2006, 10:27:00 PM
i didn't make it that far with mine Brad, i sold all three before i even got to play with them. Find somebody who has one running (turboford.org) and ask for their tables to start out with... thats how alot of people start (thats what i was going to do)
Yeah, I was going to start there. Thanks
I for one am looking forward to seeing your car running. Nice piece of work! Keep us updated on progress, please.
By the way, it's turboford.net instead of .org . They changed it several months ago.
How do you think the throttle response will be with the throttle body on the turbo inlet side? I don't know. Just curious.
Thanks
Brad Calhoun
thanks for the website update Brad.
I've got another video for you all to watch. Its the most recent rebuild of my 2.5 motor after I fried the piston. Enjoy and turn your speakers on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK_uK2yTd2k
Well, this car has been through a lot of changes over the last couple years but I think this is the final version for this car. Its back to the EFI system.
another top view.
The view from the exhaust side.
View from the intake side.
Humbled by the Excellence of execution...
I have nothing but respect for High standards of engineering!
What other Miracles can you perform?
Pintosopher
Thanks for the compliment. I find as I get older I try to make things look " simple" which takes a LOT of time ;D
Very nice
Well, guys............ This Car is now for sale... :o
I will have a bunch of photos to post soon. For now I will post the build list.
Build list 1972 Turbo Pinto
Car: 1972 ford pinto hatchback ( 71 hatch )/ original green paint/ black interior/ Jaz poly seats/ 6 point chrome moly roll bar/ full length welded in frame rails/ Autometer gauges (5" tach, boost, water, oil, volts and trans temp), wheels and tires- front 4" alum w/ 165-15; rear 7" Weld drag lt w/ 275-60-15 t-a radials/ trunk mounted battery in Moroso sealed box w/ master shutoff/ vw Scirroco radiator w/ electric fan.
Stats: 2350#/ 300 rwhp @ 18# boost/ 11.8 @ 115 mph w/ 23# boost.
Engine (note- machine work done by Dan Esslinger): 2.5 late ranger small journal, 'o' ringed/ arp head studs/ arp mains studs w/ straps/ Crower billet rods/ JE custom forged pistons w/ 1.2, 1.3, 3.0mm sealed power rings (hand gapped)/ Cord black turbo head gasket/ Esslinger svo alum head w/ #2235 roller turbo cam (234* and 585" lift) w/ Esslinger roller rockers/ Race engineering adjustable cam pulley/ Esslinger adapter head to square ported efi intake manifold/ 70mm throttle body/ 45# flowed injectors/ nos/ bosch in-line electic fuel pump/ Paxton fuel pressure regulator/ large vam w/ k&n cone/ custom chipped pf3 ecu mounted in glove box, wiring harness mounted up under dash/ ported e-6 exhaust manifold/ t3-t4 hybrid turbo (to4b '60' trim w/ t3 stage 3 63 a/r hot side)/ front mount intercooler (2 1/4x25x7)/ 3" exhaust w/ bassani muffler/ 100 amp (1) wire gm alternator/ gear reduction hi po mini starter/ additional Esslinger eng. Items- billet intermediate shaft w/ bronze gear, billet waterpump, billet waterpump and crank pulleys, crank scapper/ cast alum valve cover.
Trans: c4 by Walt built/ full manual reverse pattern w/ brake/ 3400 rpm stall Continental converter/ B&M pro ratchet shifter/ trans cooler/ Ford motor sports alum drive shaft
Rear: 8"/ 3.55/ Strange mini spool/ owner built "Caltrac" type adjustable traction bars.
Note: car has less than 500 miles on full build up.
This Car is now on Ebay as of 1/10/2013. Take a look, and tell a friend.
Good luck on the auction, hope you get a bidding war on it to get back some of your invested money.
Walt
Brad, where did your car end up going..
I'm surprised that it didn't show up on here as a new members car. ???
The car went to a Guy in Texas. I hope he is having fun with it.
Well maybe I will run across it sometime when I'm home. Sure would of liked to had it myself.
Thanks