I'm wondering if anyone currently has a diesel sipping Pinto. If so, congratulations, and I hope that you didn't have to do all the work as a start from scratch deal. If you're thinking about doing something similar, check this out:
I was just thumbing through an old Petersen's "Complete Book of Pinto", (published 1975!!!)and came across an article about a man with a California firm named Wilcap Company that was doing diesel engine transplants into PINTOS back then. He was using a 4 cylinder Nissan engine of the era, one with a 22:1 compression ratio. He also had other versions being done, including 6 cylinder ones with a turbo
The article details a thorough conversion, including a relocated, truck accessed, much larger fuel tank (over 25gal!!), adding additional reinforcing frame cross members, moving motor mounts, clutch mating work, and relocating the front sway bar. The up front weight also increased by about 200#, so he was using Mustang ll springs to replace the stockers.
With gas being headed for almost as high now (after being adjusted for inflation) as it was in the gas crunch of the 70's, a funky car that was already getting 70mpg. in 1975 (you read that right) even with the added weight from the conversion, may be of more than passing interest to some people once again.
I have the same book.A very interesting swap but very expensive.
Quote from: earthquake on May 03, 2006, 07:30:31 AM
I have the same book.A very interesting swap but very expensive.
Well stated.
Kool idea, but if you figure how much it will cost for this swap, but even with gas prices now, how many miles would you have to drive the car to get your money back? If my numbers are correct, if you dirve the car 10K miles a year, at 20MPG it will take 500 gallons and at $3. a gallon, that is $1500. For the same 10K miles at 50 MPG it will take 200 gallons, about $600. All the custom parts, to do it to save money just makes no sense unless you can do the swap very cheap and/or plan to drive the car.
I have the same book, that is neet, but lots of time and money.
Bill
I put a diesel engine in a Pinto in 1980. I acquired a brand new Isuzu 4 cylinder, 60 HP naturally aspirated engine from a Cummins dealer. My donor car was my 1974 sedan I bought new and put about 110,000 miles on. Didn't have to get rid of the gas engine, just wanted a diesel.
I did it all wrong, front sump oil pan that I couldn't turn around, cut the crossmember, built a new one under it and placed the rack about 4 inches lower than original. Those of you know front end geometry know the rest of that story!
Finally got it running, steering, 4-speed from Chevy Luv. This thing was a tractor. Pulled a 2000 pound pop-up camping trailer with it. Got 40 MPG on the highway!
I wish I could get ahold of a VW Jetta TDI today, that would be a nice setup. Not fast, but economical.
Not enough for me to change my mind on project 2.3 turbo swap though! With a T5, 3:55 8 inch rear, should get close to 30 MPG on the highway with no trouble.
Just thought I would share my experience. You think Pinto's are fun to drive today, try pulling one up to the truck pumps and begin fueling it with diesel! Folks come running up to you...."son, you can't put diesel in a Pinto!"
Dave
Hey Dave, I figured that SOMEONE on this site must have done it. Cool.
Bill, using your own figures, even with both gas and diesel at the same $3.00 per gallon and 10K miles per year, that would save $900 each year on fuel. If someone did a more serious amount of driving with it, even more per year. Wouldn't take too long to pay the swap back at that rate, (especially if someone did part of the work themselves) and most people who are interested in having diesel engines in cars tend to be in it for the long term anyway.
Now, how about a TURBO diesel Pinto? Not really practical at all, but what a conversation piece.
The engine to use for that conversion would be the BMW powerplant that came in the Fox bodied Lincoln. I don't know the displacement or much of anything else about it. I do know that it's a straight 6 turbo that seemed to fit easily into the Fox chassis. I've seen a few in the yards. This actually makes my imagination wander...how about that engine in a Mustang. It would be extremely weird, original, and an easy swap...I would guess.
Ken
Yes, I know I said $900. a year with THOSE #'s; That was just a GUESSTIMATE ratio. The ACCTUAL cost to build the will be needed to determine just how "quickly" the initial investment will be paid back. I can see that it could take well over $5000. to do this swap AND have a very dependable car. Based on the #'s I used, and IF it is a $5000. investment, it would take 5.5 years or 55K miles, whichever comes first just to "break-even" (with all else equal, not to mention that good used pinto parts are needed to help keep the rest of the car on the road, and they are not getting any easier to find).
IF someone has a good diesel hanging around great, but if they don't, and have to BUY a junk one and re-build it, or BUY a good used one, it can get expensive. There is still the matter of adapting it to a pinto tranny or using the one from the diesel, not to mention that there is a long list of ancillary parts needed, some available, some need to be fabricated (time = money). Getting a running engine very cheap might lead to trouble (not too far) down the road.
This swap is different, that is why I like it. If someone does it I hope they get even more out of it than good fuel savings (like fun with the build).
Bill
Bill,
We're talking theoretical stuff here mostly, but even with that proviso,
the only way that I can see a diesel engine CONVERSION to a Pinto costing $5000, would be if you started without either a viable car and need to bring one up to snuff first, then wanted a NEW diesel engine, instead of using a reasonably priced rebuilt or one from a low mileage wreck, or couldn't locate a suitable donor vehicle for both the engine and transmission and had to do mix and match between the 2 from 2 vehicles, instead of doing a simpler driveshaft conversion and didn't do any of the work yourself. Of course, I don't live in (Connecticut?), and I really don't know how high the used car market is, or what engines, transmissions and machine shop rates are up there.
BTW, it's only the DIFFERENCE between the end product diesel engined car and a similar car with a gasoline engine is the cost that would have to be "earned back" from fuel savings, so unless you truly believe that such a vehicle would cost $5000 MORE than a stocker type, the amortization period (payback or break even time in this case) would be much shorter than your example.
And, it wouldn't be a fair comparison to take a blown 2.0L or 2.3L engine and a transmission that is shot for example, and replace them with a $2-3000 diesel engine, and a $1000 transmission without figuring in what a comparable condition 2.0L or 2.3L and a comparable trans WOULD HAVE cost, and subtracting those prices from the prices of the "exotic" stuff.
And you'd also have to be ignoring all of those Pinto parts that you mentioned as being needed to help keep the rest of the car on the road, as those same (or least by and large same parts) would be needed no matter what engine was powering the vehicle.
The numbers I said WERE the DIFFERENCE between the fuel costs, and I did talk about this in theory (please review).
I made a simple statement about cost recovery, and I get the feeling that you are trying to prove it wrong by tossing a bunch of new variables into the mix, and twisting my words. Agree or not, fine, but what is stated is my opinion based on MY first-hand knowledge of things that I have done. It cost me about 2K in "ancillary parts" (pinto and donor t/c NOT included) to do my pinto swap, not counting the parts I made myself; I know it could very easily be more money to do the diesel thing.
I mentioned the cost of keeping the pinto on the road, because IF someone DID this swap they MIGHT drive the car FAR MORE than they would have before (to save on fuel cost and get the cost recovery).
Good luck with your swap,
Bill
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but with most diesels you can run them off of vegtable oil ( new or used) with a second tank and tank heater. Check this out, it describes doing it with a mercedes diesel http://www.noendpress.com/caleb/biodiesel/index.php .
if someone does a powerstroke swap.....they will be my new HERO!
Quote from: goodolboydws on April 08, 2006, 11:52:47 AM
I was just thumbing through an old Petersen's "Complete Book of Pinto", (published 1975!!!)and came across an article about a man with a California firm named Wilcap Company that was doing diesel engine transplants into PINTOS back then.
sorry to bring back the dead, BUT I'm thinking about doing a turbo diesel swap.
does anyone have this book still i would love to buy a copy
buy it now on Ebay for less than $15
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PETERSENS-Complete-Repair-Service-Manual-FORD-PINTO_W0QQitemZ280033556108QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280033556108&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
i've recently talked about a 6.2 or turbo 6.2 diesel into a pinto. Hell of a deal but imagine the mileage, AND the power. 6.2 is a slug in a truck but with a turbo they are 200hp and almost 400ft lb and 20mpg. set that in a 2000# car with high gears...wow.
ford made a industrail 2300 looking diesel motor . i saw one in a comerical wood chipper that a tree company had. i have been looking for one , this would will solve most of the transplant problems .
Quote from: 78pinto on May 14, 2006, 10:22:14 AM
if someone does a powerstroke swap.....they will be my new HERO!
this was my thought as i was reading though this thread and got a good laugh when i read some one post my thought