Has anyone seen or heard of someone using the Ford Taurus SHO V6 3.2L motor in a Pinto?
Jake
I haven't heard of it before & I'm not too sure it will work in the Pinto without some major mods. The Taurus SHO is FWD while the Pinto is RWD. With that in mind I'm not too sure you could find a transmission that will mate up to the engine. I'm not 100% sure about it, but pretty sure.
Hope this helps ya out. :fastcar:
I am researching this.
The tranny from an areostar 3.0 will bolt up to it.
It is an A4LD.
One of the guys on turboford is working on a 5.0 tranny adapter.
I am thinking HARD about this swap in the future.
Jim
Well this would not be the first front wheel drive motor I have switched to a rear wheel drive platform so that is not something I am to worried about. I want a 5 speed and I don't think building or adapting a bellhousing would be to big a deal. I am going to a junkyard this weekend where I already know there are several of these motors sitting in the cars. So a few measurments should tell me if I can take the next step.
Jake
if it shares the same bellhousing as the RWD 3.0, then a manual out of any 3.0 ranger will work, you'll just have to figure out how to adapt a hydraulic clutch system to the car you put it in.
Also, the ranger 3.0 is the same engine as the taurus 3.0. If the SHO motor has the same block as the 3.0, you shouldn't have too much trouble mounting it in a RWD vehicle.
-Harry
There is absolutely no way a fwd trans will work in a pinto..without major MAJOR modifications..and while the aerostart trans will work..aerostars are notorious for transmission failure...my mother in law has a 94 aerostar she had the trans rebuilt twice..finally gave that up bought a new trans and now it wont shift into overdrive...so using an aerostar trans is not recommended if you ask me
Well I was not even coming close to thinking about using a FWD trans but I did find out that a Aerostar bellhousing mated to a 90's Mustang T5 will bolt up. All I need to do is make a 1/2 inch adapter for the trans to the bellhousing. So that is one hurdle overcome.
Jake
my apologies if i came across as a smart alec. but the aerostar transmissions are junk. bell housing should hold up about the only thing worthy of an aerostar transmission. tghe t5 is a plenty strong number . so when the beast is complete please post a picture
I respect smart alec. I am a practioner of sarcasm. That does not always come across well on Forums either. If I can determine that it will fit the car than I will be posting pictures as I go.
Jake
One thing...
The tranny in the aerostar is the A4LD... which isnt a great tranny... BUT... you can swap over the internals from a 4.0 explorer A4LD... and have a nice strong auto with overdrive for whichever application you desire ;)
Jim
The Aerostar also used a manual tranny. That's the bellhousing I was looking at. I would rather shift. ;D Doing some research today I discovered that the SHO V6 is quite possible part of the Vulcan and Cologne family of Ford engines. If this is true then I may be able to use a bellhousing and clutch setup from a newer 4.0 V6 mustang. That engine crosses over to everything from the Aerostar to the Ranger and even the Granada.
Jake
The "vulcan" engines are totaly different than any of the 4.0 "cologne" engines. Bellhousing bolt patterns are totaly different as well.
Any aerostar transmission is the same transmission used in a ranger/broncoII/explorer. The AWD aerostars even have the same "4wd" trans, minus the transfer case.
your only choices for a RWD transmission are from a 3.0 aerostar, ranger, or 93 and up mazda M3000 trucks (re-badged ranger). 3.0 were never used in any other RWD Platform. Those transmissions include: A4ld automatic and the mazda M5od manual.
As previously posted, the A4ld was junk, is junk, and will always be junk. It will last longer if upgraded internaly to 4.0 standards, but its still a crapshoot.
The problem with the M5od is that it has a one piece case... meaning the bellhousing is not removable. This means that you HAVE to find a trans from a 3.0 cause nothing else will work. Other than that, they're great transmissions. They were also used in F-150s and if they hold up behind the ford 300 6 cyl, a SHO engine won't be any problem.
So, to sum it up, you only have 3 options if you want a manual for the conversion: 1 Use the 3.0 M5od, 2 somehow use an a4ld bellhousing with a t5 trans (doubtfull it will work), 3 shell out the $$$$ to have a custom bellhousing made for a t5.
-Harry
Quote from: bigh4th on February 10, 2006, 01:57:14 AM
As previously posted, the A4ld was junk, is junk, and will always be junk. It will last longer if upgraded internaly to 4.0 standards, but its still a crapshoot.
Someone with a bit of know... and who likes to put thier cars thru a LOT of abuse disagrees... ;)
Read Joe Morgan's posts in this thread.
http://www.turboford.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=018495
Jim
Also according to this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cologne_V6_engine
The Cologne motor was also used in the Ranger and the Aerostar. That's why I thought that the Cologne motor and the Vulcan motor might share the same bolt pattern for the bellhousing. But this page:
http://members.cox.net/rdgrauman/Healey.html
Seems to layout the most simple method for at least connecting a manual transmission (namely a T5) to a SHO motor. The owner of the car has already been nice enough to email me back ansering a couple of questions.
Jake
Of course they can be built up better than 4.0 standards...but you're gonna pay big for it.
My ex co-worker had a 94 explorer that she bought brand new. around 130,000 miles the a4ld crapped out. Paid well over $1000 to have it rebuilt and it crapped out again after 10,000 miles. She had it done at a very good shop out here and the fellow that did it told her before hand it was a hit or miss situations with that trans. Needless to say, he got her another trans from the junkyard and rebuilt that one for her and she's on the road again. didn't charge her either.
Fact is most places (out here, anyways) won't touch them because they're the "comeback" king. You've either got a winner or a flat out loser.
If Mr. Morgan is having good luck with his built a4ld, then great. Its about time someone has. They may very well live longer with an engine that doesn't make a lot of low-end torque. But I know a lot of people with 2.9 and 4.0 vehicles who haven't had good luck with them...me included.
-Harry
Thats right. I forgot the aerostars got the 3.0 in 87. Evidently he got extremly lucky and found a manual aerostar (super rare) with the Toyo-kogyo (mazda's industry name) 5 speed. those transmissions do indeed have a removable bell housing.
You'll only be able to find those in 87 and possibly 88 aerostars. 88 was the last year ford used those transmissions in anything and its very possible they quit using them in the aerostars in 87.
-Harry
Well thats some knew and welcome info. I guess if I find the engine will fit hunting down that bellhousing will be the first order. I wonder if Ford even still carries it? Well I guess the hunt is part of the fun anyways. Thanks for the info and narrowing down the search years though. Good to know.
Jake
Got this from www.car-part.com. Evidently they had the 3.0 in 86 as well. Its for a 3.0 manual trans.
1986
Transmission Bellhousing Only
Ford Aerostar I50557 $75 Morton's Auto Salvage USA-NC(Jacksonville) E-mail 1-877-937-0700
-Harry
75.00!!!! Well you can't beat that! I am used to dealing with stuff where the bellhousings are 300 or 400 dollars. Man I love my Pinto!
Jake
Quote from: bigh4th on February 10, 2006, 07:56:23 AMIf Mr. Morgan is having good luck with his built a4ld, then great. Its about time someone has. They may very well live longer with an engine that doesn't make a lot of low-end torque. But I know a lot of people with 2.9 and 4.0 vehicles who haven't had good luck with them...me included.
-Harry
Well... Joe, "Turbo Joe", was running the A4LD in the 2.3 turbo nitrous assisted ranger that was pretty quick. It had "good" torque. ;)
It all comes down to the builder and the quality of the parts.
If a shop knows them... they will be fine.
And when talking about a totally unique setup... ie... making a RWD SHO powered pinto... there will usually be something that has a price on it.
I just offered the info that the A4LD "can" be made strong and reliable with a little work.
Because even tho it IS a manual... a truck tranny wont be much fun in a high winding performance car. Also... look at the transmission tunnel modifications to house that tranny.
Jim
beleive it or not, the ratios in the 2.3-3.0 ranger transmissions aren't far off from a car trans. the 4.0 manual has different ratios though.
and the toyo and m5od are pretty much the same size as a t5. Possibly even smaller.
I can give a comparison pic of a toyo and stock pinto 4spd if needed.
-Harry
Well this ends it. I got to measure of a SHO 3.0 and a 3.2 today. Oddly enough its not the width. The engine will work width wise but the length is way to long. At 33 inches the engine would nearly extend to the back of the grill. So it looks like my sen=cond choice which seems to be the most popular. The turbo 4 cylinder. Thanks for all the opinions.
Jake
i can get any trans you want if the place has it $50 doesnt matter manual,auto or what it came out of $50.
Quote from: Gaslight on February 11, 2006, 08:02:30 PM
Well this ends it. I got to measure of a SHO 3.0 and a 3.2 today. Oddly enough its not the width. The engine will work width wise but the length is way to long. At 33 inches the engine would nearly extend to the back of the grill. So it looks like my sen=cond choice which seems to be the most popular. The turbo 4 cylinder. Thanks for all the opinions.
Jake
It's too long???? It can't be longer than my 351.. i still have about 1/2 inch between the rad and the bolts on the water pump snout. You gotta do this conversion, i wanna see it....somebody do it, my god that thing will fly! (especially with a turbo or 2 :evil:) YOU CAN DO IT!
I sure wish I could. But it won't fit. Because of the head design the offset of the V6 SHO is more extreme. In other words if you look straight down at the motor from the top the right bank of cylinders is offset much more than a standard V8. Adding to its length. Then you have a fairly large front timing belt cover. The ignition system (once the engine is set to RWD) is up against the firewall. That would not be to bad but with all the accesories the overall length is 30 inches. Then when you flop the throttle body back to the now front of the motor so it will work in RWD it ends up being 33 inches. It can be done but you would have to do some cutting. Its not something I would want to do on this car. Its just too nice.
Jake
So what trans would you use if you wanted and auto
on a Vulcan motor. Just wondering because I have a 1998 Taurus with the dohc motor in it and it is lighter then my v8 and may have a better top end.
You have the SHO motor? Won't fit. I was measuring one up to do that very same thing. At 34 inches long you would have to cut the firewall away. But just for conversion sake I would use the AOD that came in the mid 90's Aerostar. The V6 in the Aerostar was the Vulcan series motor.
Jake
no i have the 200 hp v6 duratech 3.0 out of the dohc ford Taurus dose that make any diffrence?
Alot of the reliability issues with the a4ld is the pump itself. They are a weird pump design, and it is very hard to remachine them, so most shops that couldn't afford the re-machined ones that i used to make, would call where i worked and ask me to sort thru all the used pumps and find one that still had some life in it. I quit that job in 2001, at that time there were only 3 places in the world who could machine an a4ld pump with a non removable shaft; Ford, a reman place in china, and where I worked at powertrain recycling. There are a couple types of a4ld pumps, some had removable auxilary shafts some didnt. the removable shaft type any one could remachine if they knew how to offset a lathe. But the non removable kind presented the problem of an extra 2 lbs of metal swinging in the air making it vibration prone and apt to hit your cutter. I Designed a turntable with different preset offsets, and did all the math and found a way to do them on the milling machine, but i had to get a company to design me a special cutter for it, Fortunatly for me I was the only person who knew how to use my rig, and i didnt give that info up when i left, but im sure that in the last 5 years someone else has figured it out.
So after all this wind my question is to the guy whose buddy has all the luck with the a4lds, is your friend using the ones with the removable shaft, or are his rebuilds using a brand new pump from ford or some other aftermarket manufacturing company.
P.s. I know nothing about how automatics work or how to fix them, I was just the machinist who did all the machine work to restore old parts, take 60's and 70's parts and modify them to fit 2000 and up trannies when parts supplies were running low. And also the chief engineer of all new products and designs that related to the machining of said products. You'd be surprised how many c-6 and c-4 parts can be re-engineered to fit todays stuff. A lot of you might be shocked to find out that the extremely rare part you paid 350 bucks for actually came out of some old POS, and I made it look like a 2000, and Im sure a lot of rebuilders would too. Most forward drums can be remachined to accept at least one extra clutch as well.
Quote from: itmayblow on March 14, 2006, 07:38:33 PM
no i have the 200 hp v6 duratech 3.0 out of the dohc ford Taurus dose that make any diffrence?
Not much of a difference. Its still a Vulcan series engine. I don't have any real experince with engine swaps involving automatics. Everyone I deal with wants a manual which goes double for me. Although if this is your daily driver I totally understand the want for an auto. I always have an auto in whatever I daily drive. As far as I know you are going to be stuck using the AOD from the 90's Aerostar. At least if you want to keep it bolt on. I know I could adapt just about anything else but its a matter of machining and fabrication at that point. I have bought a lot of adapters from this place (http://www.rodshop.com.au/). They are first class guys and really good products. Ask them and they may have something already inhouse to swap in another transmission.
Jake
If anyone's still interested, the '86 Aerostar had the 3.0/manual tranny as well. I have one in the drive, currently inop (engine internal malfunction).
if the duratech and vulcan engines share a bellhousing bolt pattern, and you want a manual trans, you can use a ranger 3.0 bellhousing and bolt a T5 behind it.