hi,
I am new into the world of pinto's. Just bought mine used from the car lot I work at as a mechanic. As far as i can tell my car has a set of headers, stickers for a crane cam, a custom dual exhaust on it. It drives ok and sounds great but doesn't seem to have a whole lot of go when i step on it. It has the orriginal carb with all the smog crud removed and it won't idle worth a darn until it warms up fully. Any ideas as to what i would need to do to get it to move better? It keeps up door to door acceleration wise with my wife's isuzu trooper which doing the math makes me beleive I am putting out around 115-120 hp at the crank. is that about right for that set up? Any ideas or help would be appreciated
Welcome.
Keep in mind that a stock 4-banger pinto can't get out of it's own way, and the stock v6, it is barly able to. It might need more tweeking, or at least a full tune-up. A tune-up is where I would go first, along with a full inspection, and make it run as good as it can and go from there if you want to keep the engine you have. The cam sticker is far easier to install than the cam, but if someone did all that other work, it might have it, but just a mild one.
Good luck,
Bill
Sounds like you need a good tune up. The first thing I would do is run a compression test on all 6 cylinders. No sense putting a lot of work into something that worn out anyways. I will say that the biggest power loss you have is that POS c3 automatic trans behind it, but I'm sure you're not into a 4 spd swap from a mustang II. Anyways...
The 2.8 has solid or mechanical lifters, so you may need to adjust your valve lash. I can't remember the specs, so unless someone on here has them, you should pick up a chilton repair manual. The valves being just hair out of adjustment can make all the difference in the world.
Next I would check your timing. Make sure its set right ( 10* btdc for a stock cam) or maybe advance it a little since you're running an aftermarket cam. Just watch out for pinging.
after that, I would check the carburetor out. If you have a variable venturi (sp) carb, get a standard motorcraft 2150 2 bbl from some years of pintos and mustang II v6 cars. The VV carb was junk when it was brand new, so if this is your carb and you've removed some emissions components, chances are this is your biggest problem.
The 2.8 is a good little motor with a decent ammount of potential. In stock form its ok, but people are making 200+ hp with them all the time, and there IS an aftermarket for them. Offenhauser makes a 4bbl manifold for them, some people still make headers for them, and there is still a good range of performance cams out there.
Hope that helps.
-Harry
Hey,
thanks for the idea's. I have checked timing adjusted the valve lash and getting rid of the auto tranny is high on my list of things to do. I am thinking it might be a carb issue because it tends to hesitate on acceleration sometimes when i really step on it. The other question I have is what is a safe max RPM I can take the engine to safely if I shift the transmission manually? It has an aftermarket tach and the previous owner has the redline set to 4,000 rpm which isn't much higher than what the engine cruises at on the freeway (3100). How high can i go?
Thanks
That depends on the condition of the engine, and " Do you feel lucky...?"
Keeping it tuned and maintained well COULD help it 'survive' more abuse, but....
If there is a good cam with tired stock springs, they MIGHT float before you get near 'critical mass'.
As long as you understand and accept what might happen if you go too far.
Bill
Hello squidd78v6,
Check you drivers door post to find out what the code is for your transmission.
If there is a V? That is bad! C3 tranny.
If the tranny code is W? that is GOOD! C4!
I have a 78 W/ the C4 tranny so it is possible that your Pinto could have the GOOD tranny TOO!
From Pintony
dont know about the revv thing lol my mustang only want to go to about 5500 which was low compaired to my Neon.
and shoot my car can run it up to around 7 or a little over and the cam in it works fine but the head has been built in the race car.
but the bottom end is stock. i kinda revved my stang more then i wanted to once and i has 140k on it and i got lucky and didn't break anything.
main thing too on the revvs how was the car driven before you? if you dont know try to find out if it was never pushed hard i would not push it hard more likely to brake something or pop a ring
Hey,
I checked the door post and my car has the "w" transmision code. Until I got this car I have been predominatly a chevy guy so I don't know the diffrence between a C3 and a C4 tranny. What are the basics? My little pinto has been changing my mind as far as brand loyalty. My station wagon has been taking freeway on ramp corners on 175 series tires at speeds that I would think twice about taking an 80's f-body around at. Thanks again for any info you might have
James
i got it real bad i am a dodge guy and own a camaro and a mustang.
dont even have a dodge anymore
My advice, ditch the 2.8, score the engine,computer and wiring harness from a early 90s ranger with a 4.0L V6. This will bolt right in and since you are a mechanic,you should be able to handle the wiring swap.As far as your trans...any C4 in good shape will easy handle 300HP and at 160HP, yours should be fine. This swap would produce a car with a smooth idle(Thank you fuel injection), a ton of low end power, and about 50 more HP then you have right now, not to mention at least 25MPG.... IF you can keep your foot out of it.
To eric t:: have you personally done this 2.8 > 4.0 swap??????? as far as I understand the 4.0 is based on the 2.9 NOT the 2.8. I may be misinformed or mis remembering something, but I thought the 2.8 and 2.9 had a different bell housing pattern, or was it the flywheel???? Been awhile since i helped my one friend destroy all those worthless toyo koygo's or what ever the crap they are called. The last transmission that ford built that could handle 300+ horses day in and day out was the C-6. every other STOCK automatic ever made, except the power glide, needs a little help, but that is only my opinion.
to SQUID, I believe the book quotes either 98 or 105 horses. as far as rpm's, mine turned 5800 to 6200 every race, and depending on how mad i was, flatfooted in first gear till it just wouldn't go anymore(dont know, tach doesn't go that high) and bump second. this motor is completely stock(except the carb) with 62000 miles on it.
The TH400 will take it too. Dont thi nk that youd fit that or a C6 into a pinto (i could be wrong!) and as heavy as they are, a C4 is by far probably the best bet. Some guys like to stuff AOD's in their pintos, but it sounds like it takes alot of modification to do it. As for the 2.8 V6, i personally would replace it with something else. The 4.0L is supposed to be the big brother of the 2.8. It should bolt in place of it, but be prepared to do soemwiring, because the 4L is all fuel injected. It would be a great swap tho. Or, what most guys do is put in a 2.3 Turbo from a Merkur XR4TI, Thunderbird TurboCoupe, or Mustang SVO. It takes a little wiring too but its not bad and to go along with it most put a T5 five speed behind it. Its pretty easy in a pinto, since its the same motor as the 2.3 that came in the pintos, its just a factory fuel injected and turbocharged version. It would blow both the 2.8 and 4.0 out of the water, power wise and fuel milage wise! And, you get the benefits of the fuel injection - more power/throttle responce, better fuel milage, easier cold starts, stuff like that. Good luck on your car in whatevr you decide to do, and keep us up to date! that car looks nice, id like to have one just like it. You can get parts and help here in the forums to help you out.
James in missouri
1976 Ford Pinto 2.3/4 Speed (stock for now)
The 2.6, 2.8, 2.9, and 4.0 are all relatives. The 2.6 has a smaller bore than the 2.8. The 2.9 has a longer stroke than a 2.8, and the cam rotates opposite. The 4.0 has a longer stroke and larger bore than a 2.9 and a taller deck to compensate for it. All of these engines are called "cologne" engines because they're made in Ford of Germany's Cologne plant.
That being said, only 3 of those engines can be put in a pinto. The 2.6 (why?) the 2.8, and the 2.9 with a Merkur upper intake. The Truck 2.9 and NO 4.0 will work in a pinto without heavy modification. The intake manifolds stick up too high on both of the engines and Both of the truck engines have a rear-sump oil pan.
The oil pan from a 2.8 will work on a 2.9, but the 4.0 has its own unique oil pan and will not interchange. Its also cast aluminum which means it can't be modified easily. this plus the fact that there is only a truck manifold means that it won't fit under a pinto's hood... At least not cheaply.
The new mustangs use the DOHC 4.0, but if any of us can afford the price tag on factory parts, we would probably have already put a 302 in our cars.
Either way, in the end the 4.0 will get around the same gas mileage as a 302 with less horse power.
-Harry
thank you harry!!! plus the journals for the crank and cam are different dimensions between the 2.8 and 2.9. the flywheels are just a little different too. they will both work but one combination will eat starters.
p.s. I also know where there is one of those merkur intakes for the 2.9. the one that looks like a mini version of the corvette intake.
Actualy, the 2.8 and 2.9 share the same rod/main journal sizes, as well as the 82-86 2.8 cam journal sizes. The earlier 2.8's (74-79) have smaller cam journals.
Some people have used the 2.9 chank in their hopped up 2.8's for better performance. The 2.9 crank has more "stroke" than the 2.8's and it raises the compression just a hair (if you use 2.8 flat-top pistons instead of 2.9 dished pistons). The only thing is you have to have the 2.9's crank snout machined down to accept the 2.8's timing gear.
I had a re-ring kit I ordered for a 2.8 that I wound up using most of on a 2.9. Used all the bearings and piston rings with 2.8 pistons. The 2.8 pistons can also be used in 2.9's to bump the compression up a little as well.
The 2.8 and 2.9's are pretty much brothers. The only difference in the blocks are the added oil galleries (poorly, i might add) for the 2.9's hydraulic lifters, and the oil pump mounting is different. other than that, the block is pretty much the same. It even has the fuel pump boss cast into it still, but its not opened up.
The 4.0 is another beast all together. It is part of the cologne engine family, but other than the bell housing pattern, it shares no other parts with the 2.8/2.9
-Harry
if you use a 2.9 crank in a 2.8. what keeps the pistons from hitting the head???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
The stroke isn't long enough to run the pistons up that far.
I've made a run on Desktop dyno with a 2.8 buit with the 2.9 crank, 2.9 valves, the hottest cam comp cams makes for the 2.8, 4bbl, and shorty headers and it came up with 220 hp. however, everything I've read about desktop dyno says that their estimates are usualy lower than actual power.
-Harry
If there is enough room from the top of the pistons at tdc, that they still wont hit the head with a 2.9 crank in a 2.8, then why not just deck the block to the top of the 2.8 pistons and be done with it. instead of all the jury rigging to get the 2.9 crank in it?? Harry you and i have discussed this 2.8 2.9 thing before, please be advised that i am not trying to be an argumentative moron, I am trying to get to the bottom of this swap thing,BEFORE, dissecting my 2.8.
There is a 6 cubic inch difference between the 2.9 and the 2.8. I should've re-worded my post about to say that while the 2.9 crank does push the pistons a little higher (better compression) the difference in stroke is how far the pistons are pulled down into the bore.
While I myself haven't doen the 2.9 crank to a 2.8 conversion, it has been done and does indeed yeild better power. I'll see if I can hunt up the webpage.
-Harry
Thanx harry. What for flywheel were they using the 2.8 or the 2.9?
as far as manual trans go, if the pilot bearing is in the flywheel (which is the only kind I've ever seen) you can use a 2.8 or 2.9. they're the same flywheel with the same part number. Automatics are also the same as long as you have the correct flywheel/flexplate with its correct transmission (c3, c4-c5, a4ld).
The 4.0 flywheel is larger, but will also work. The only reason to use the 4.0 flywheel is mainly for offroad or truck use where as the extra spinning mass of the flywheel helps you to take off if you're pulling a load.
-Harry
Quote from: bigh4th on February 03, 2006, 09:53:02 AM
as far as manual trans go, if the pilot bearing is in the flywheel (which is the only kind I've ever seen) you can use a 2.8 or 2.9. they're the same flywheel with the same part number. Automatics are also the same as long as you have the correct flywheel/flexplate with its correct transmission (c3, c4-c5, a4ld).
But what about the counterweights on the flywheel(2.8 vs 2.9), wouldn't they be weighted differently because one crank is slightly heavier than the other??
Nope. 2.8 and 2.9 are internaly ballanced. Only thing the counterweights on the flywheels do is ballance the flywheel itself, just like a tire.
-Harry
Ok, makes sense.