Would like to get some input on what any of you may have done to make your Pinto more street worthy as far as handling goes. I have some ideas and some questions. This is what I have planned so far, let me know what you think.
1. Rebuild the complete frontend with new bushings, ball joints, and tie rod ends. Considering using urethane bushings throughout.
2. Use 2" dropped spindles in front and 1-2" spacers in the rear.
3. 1" Addco front swaybar with urethane bar bushings and end link bushings.
4. Mustang II 5/8" rear swaybar with urethane bar bushings and end link bushings.
5. Koni shocks front and rear.
6. 15" wheels with 205/50-15s front and 225/50-15s rear.
I would have the frontend alignment set to 3* +caster, 0-1/4* -camber, 0-1/16" toe-in.
I used to run a '65 Mustang that I had modified the front suspension to Ford's Trans-Am specs with relocated upper control arms, stiffer springs, Koni shocks, 1" Shelby front swaybar, quick steering pittman and idler arms, and set the front end alignment to 3* +caster, 1/2* -camber, and 1/16" toe-in. I used 15x7" steel Boss 302 wheels with F60-15 tires (remember those?!? ;D). The suspension was firm, to say the least! I had a friend that used to say that this car was the only car he knew where you could drive over a dime and tell whether it was heads or tails!! ;D Anyway, it handled like it was on rails! Freeway offramps that said to slow to 35, could easily be taken at 65. Lots of fun!! ;D
Now, I don't expect my Panel to handle quite like my Mustang did, but close would be nice! ;) Anyone have any input or additional thoughts or ideas on what I've said above?!? Let me know. Thanks!!
Hey 79Pannel,
I think the 2" drop spindels are too much drop. Anybody out there tried them?????
The Konis sound great. Good luck finding a set for a wagon.
If you do find them let me know where and how much.
I have Konis on the rear of my Purple Pinto the front ones need NEW bushings pressed in so I have side-lined them with a pair of Monroe Blues.
I have the addco front swaybar on P.P. Works nice but the mounts are crude by my standards.
Your tire size sounds good! What offset on your rims?
I have 195's on the front of P.P. I wanted 205's But I went conservitive on the front wheels. 15X6. and the 205 was just too fat for the 6" rim.
Then American racing changed from lugs W/washers to acorn style lug-nuts so I would have 2 different kinds of lugs if I swaped to the 7" wheels now.
+ the extra 400.00 i'd have invested in the NEW wheels.
I had thought I would find someone that needed the 6" and had 7" and we could swap.
But that never happened.
Hope that helps.
From Pintony
The 1" bar in front with the 5/8" bar in the rear along with the bushings ought to get some REALLY good results. Throw in the good Koni gas shocks & it oughtta be on rails. I'd think a 1" drop on the suspension would be enough without dragging the floorboards off on speedbumps. As for your alignment specs I'd check the factory stuff & go from there.
More caster makes a car more stable, but numb on center. Less caster makes a car wander a bit on center, but makes turn in a lot sharper. A little negative camber makes a car bite better in the corners as the tire sits sraight up. Toe in sharpens response, toe out makes stability. There's a fine line to be walked between good handling & tire shredding so make sure you go to a shop that can & WILL get your settings dead on.
Thanks for the input guys! The wheels I will be using are Weld Draglites. 15x7 with 4.5 BS on the front with 15x8 with 4.5 BS on the rear. In the photo on my profile, I have 15x7 '86 Mustang Police Special steel wheels all around. These wheels have about a 5" BS. I have used them with a 1/4" spacer without any problems, but it is very close on the front. I used these same wheels and tires on my '77 for almost a year without any issues. One thing I did notice was the larger tires helped the braking tremendously!! I have test fit the front Welds and it looks like the 4.5 BS is going to be just about right. In the rear, there's plenty of room. As far as the 2" spindles go, the panel currently sits pretty high and I have measured where it would be with a 2" drop with the 205/50-15 tires and initially it looks like it should be okay. I'll find out for sure when I get it assembled with the spindles and see where everything stands. I may have to remove the complete inner large splash shield the later Pintos use and use the smaller ones from the '77 and earlier for more room. As far as the Konis go, Pintony, I have two full sets, fronts and rears, for the wagons. Both sets of rears are NOS along with one of the front sets. The other fronts are low mileage used. I believe a company called Classic Car had Koni make a production run of the fronts a year or two ago, so I don't know if there are any more. I bought one of those sets. It ended up being close to $200 with shipping. The front Addco bar I have is supposed to bolt in place of the factory bar and I was planning on using urethane bushings and end kits from Energy Suspension. We'll see how that works out. If not, I'll stay with the 15/16" Pinto bar. I've seen people use the Mstg II 1" bar, but it's bent slightly different than the Pinto which causes some binding where it connects to the control arm. Part of the reason for the increase in caster is that it helps keep the tires more vertical to the road under hard cornering. The standard setup on the Pinto causes the top of the outside tire to move away from the car under cornering, which is the opposite of what is wanted. With the combination of the latter and body roll, you end up on the outside edge of the tread with very little rubber on the ground giving heavy understeer. Hey Crazyhorse, I thought it was just the opposite on the toe?!? I thought slight toe-in increased stability and toe-out increased turn-in response, but made the car more skittish. Fortunately, I do have a frontend shop that will dial in the frontend to whatever I want. They are also sharp enough that they will give me input if they think I'm going overboard. Anyway, this is all in the planning stages at the moment. I'll be getting after this in about 30-45 days, depending on how quickly I can get the '77 running dependably. After the heart operation, I can't quite put in the hours I once did, so we'll see how it goes. Thanks again, guys, I appreciate it!
Toe out keeps the steering gear in tension, (theoretically anyways) holding the wheel straight. Whereas toe in keeps it in compression, making it easier to turn. Maybe I'm backwards, but hey after all I'm just a "Hillbilly" LOL
I think Roundy Round guys run toe out because of the banked track.
When the R.H. spring compresses the toe is correct for the position of the susspension.
;)
For a 80 Pinto, would the 5/8" MII rear bar work with a 9" rear from a 57 wagon ? The rear has the same width and spring perch line up as stock Pinto rear. ;D
Caster is what makes the difference in how your car turns The more + caster you have the
more th car wants to go striaght. The more - caster the easier the car will turn. the more - caster you have the more the car will folow the shapes (dip high spots) in the road.
+ toward front of car
- toward back of car
Toe has nothing to do with that.
Not meaning to say that I know a lot but, I work in body shop and Ido all the alignments just to let ya no
So if I used my Hot rod Magazine string front end alignment tool and the toe is perfect but it still pulls to the right, then the right side may have too much negative caster?