Well, it's been a long time coming, but the Cossie's ready to drop in. I might get it done this weekend, but certainly by next.
impressive to say the least
is the short block 2.3L based or cosworth only?
brad :)
SMOOOKIN!!!
Thats a nice looking setup there!
Lots of cash sitting there, hope to hear it running when you get it finished!
Brad, it's a 2 liter block. It's a Cosworth, but the dimensions are the same as the Pinto 2.0. I think there are minor differences, like oil drainback (from turbocharger), etc., but you can put a Cosworth head like this on a Pinto 2.0 block and it'll work. Of course, there are other things to change, like pistons, but it's done often.
Des Hammill's book, "How to Power Tune Ford SOHC 'Pinto' and Sierra Cosworth DOHC Engines for Road and Track" details how it's done. It's also a great how to book for the 2.0 Pinto engine. I bought the book for tips on what to do for the Cosworth and found it helpful.
I got this engine straight from Cosworth, unassembled, with all the machine work already performed (finish hone, deburring, etc), and assembled it here at home.
Now it's time to get off my butt and get the thing in the car.
Wow, that's bitchin'
What are you guestimating for power on that? Looks like a really nice set-up.
Also, fuel injected? Or Carbs? I don't know too much about those motors, so I can't really tell by looking at it. Also, any other specs you care to share???
Dry sump?
Cosworth sold this engine kit two ways: hydraulic cam followers, production cams or solid cam followers, slightly more radical cams. The hydraulic engine puts out about 200 bhp or so, and the solid engine puts out about 260 bhp or so. Mine is the hydraulic engine. I opted for better street driveability/lower maintenance over more power and higher operating costs. So, it's not a beast. Redline for this engine is 7800 rpms. It should idle smoothly and pull away from a stop pretty easily. This is a good thing, because I'm running a 2.04-low Quaife straight-cut gear dogbox, which will feel like I'm starting off in second gear. The 4.11 geared rear end will help.
Yes, the engine is dry-sumped. I put the mockup engine in the car awhile back to run all the oil lines, etc. Now when it goes in, the plumbing will be permanent.
I hope I'll get the engine and all its plumbing in over the next couple of weekends. I'll post pics as I do.
Sorry, I forgot to answer the fuel question. Those are Weber carbs.
Man thats awesome!
So i remember drooling over the Ford Motorsport Catolouge way back in the 80s and early 90s. They had a kit for the head, cams, and a few other parts MINUS the induction and header which would have to be custom for my Pinto.
I wanted that setup sooo bad, but if i remember they had a price tag on that bioatch of $7500!! again MINUS the carbs and manifold! Lets just throw another 1000 for that and another 1000 for the header. Oh yah then dont forget the short block to redoo . Another $1500!
I had no way to do that , I mean hell a new 5.0 LX Mustang was about 12000 in '88 !
LOL
Im just talking, not trying to take anything away from you at all your car is truly going to be unique!
Cant Wait!
Yes, there are definitely less expensive ways to go faster, but I got interested in naturally aspirated multivalve engines when I was stationed in Germany. I had wanted to get a BDA or BDG engine, but believe it or not, this Cosworth YB was way cheaper.
Cosworth sold this kit complete from carbs to dry sump pan for about $7500. Then I added a Bosch centrifugal advance distributor (the stock one was electronic/no advance built in) and a Tilton flywheel for another few hundred. The Webers were 50 DCO SPs, which were way too large for the street, so I traded them even for some 45 DCOEs, which will be more drivable.
All told, the engine wasn't that terribly expensive, but you can turbocharge a 2.3 for half the price and be faster I admit.
I had to move the master cylinder(s) inside the firewall so the carbs would have room, and I did lots of other little things to accomodate this engine. You're right, exhaust headers aren't made for this engine in this chassis, but I'm going to gamble on a set for a European MK1/2 Escort with this engine transplanted, providing I am encouraged by the measurements I get when the engine is in. If not, I'll be having them custom made. That should be my last hurdle.
Thanks for the interest. It's been a long haul, with plenty of interruptions (kids in college, etc) over the years. Now it's my turn.
Cossiepinto, I have to say, you rock, I've wanted one of these for a long time, even N/A that thing will move a pinto nicely! I'm interested in where you are at and who you purchased it from? Those things are not easy to come by in the US, (unless I'm missing something) I'll be posting picks of my new 2V head shortly, filled intake ports big valves, lots of work to get close to what you have stock!
Ranchero, I'm in San Angelo, which is in west Texas. I bought the engine from Cosworth in Torrance, in LA, California. The guy in sales is still there. His name is Ken Jacobs. He was very helpful when I first made the purchase and still is. Just the other day I ordered a fresh head gasket and ARP head stud kit for my engine.
I'm not sure if they still make up kits like they sold me, but these engines are still available from various European sources like Burton Performance. Also, they can be found in wrecking yards. They were turbocharged in all production cars they came in and some of those make LOTS of power. Just look up Cosworth YB on youtube for some scary dyno numbers.
I looked on Cosworth USA's site and they now sell an all aluminum block for this engine. It's expen$ive!
I've attached a couple of pics I think posted before for those who might not have seen the car. This was the day I rolled it out to get the inside of it Rhino-lined.
do you have any bars running forward to tie into the front 'subframe'?
I made sub frame connectors that run diagonally from the outside rear subframe to the front subframe. They come through the floor and are welded along the whole seam. You can see them in the picture of the Rhino-lined floor. Also, I removed the bars that went from the center of the roll bar down and forward to the front roll hoop at the floor on each side so that I could get in and out to install seats, etc. I'm still deciding on how I will design them. I have to wait until I get the seats in to see where they'll be exactly. I have later doors that have the door beams in them for side-impact safety, but I know putting the bars back in will add even more rigidity, but at the expense of ingress and egress. It's a road car, so as you can see, I'm still scratching my head about this.
The car is really stiff now. Funny story: I had made tripod/adjustable-height jack stands for the car (they actually cradled the sub frame connectors using channel iron front and rear), which were on casters, so I could gently roll the whole car from one side of the garage to the other while still on the stands. Well, as we all know, garage floors aren't really level, so after I rolled the car to one side of the garage, I came around and saw one jack stand sitting all by itself RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FLOOR! I about crapped my pants! But, the car was still sitting on its remaining three stands, like nothing was wrong! Thank you sub frame connectors and cage! I was going to put little coil springs under the cradles on those stands to compensate for the uneven floor, but soon after that, the car was on its own wheels and down.
Paul,
Glad to see you working on your project and making progress- You and I both have put things on the back burner for too long and it's funny that we are both working toward the mark together. I eventually needed a goal like Norm's Stampede to get my green runabout finished (or functional)- now the yellow for the next 'hopefully'- Maybe you could join us? You have been part of this site and it's growth for as long as I can remember- would love to ride with you.
I have always been amazed with your motor and all the work you have put into your car to date. Yours will be really a fantastic ride and it would be real fun to see it up close.
Honestly, sometimes I just sit and look at the photos of your engine (and the previous shots from years gone by) with anticipation of maybe doing something this cool to mine some day. You and Brad- Really Shiney!!
Good Stuff,
Thru-floor subframe connectors came out real nice. Rhino coat deffinately hides alot and it looks great. I really dig the Cosworth as I`m a Vega/Monza fan. Me personnally, I`d a stuck with the sidedraft 50`s. Could you by chance take a pic of the mastercylinder mounting? I need to move mine for my build. Thanks, James
custommuffler,
Yes, Cosworth built that chevy engine for Formula 2 racing in Europe, but by the time it was ready, a rule change or something made it uncompetitive. It was based on the Vega block, like the Cosworth Fords were based on Ford blocks, so it was a natural fit into the Vega. I think it was designated the "EAA" engine by Cosworth. Anyway, that was one really cool buildup for the Vega. Too bad emissions and 5-mph bumper laws hampered it. Still, it was the coolest Vega ever, in my opinion.
Here are some pics of the interior/pedal arrangement. I found hard points to place the mounts, then built the brackets to hold the Tilton overhung pedal assembly. After a lot of fiddling I was able to come up with just the right amount of room to get everything to work ok. I had to be careful not to interfere with the swing of the wiper crank, too. I actually had to relieve the horizontal bar across the top on the backside so the wiper crank would pass without ticking on it.
I built it in pieces so I could dismantle it as need be, but once it's in there, I doubt if I'll ever move it again. The master cylinders aren't in there in the pics, but they fit and the steering shaft just barely passes between the two brake master cylinders.
Hey Scott!
I bet you get those questions like "Well, what are you gonna do with it when you finish?" And there's no really good answer, is there? I tell my wife that I'll drive it to work when the weather's just right, or I'll autocross it (in some kind of open class where I'll get my butt whipped), or I'll take it to the local Mustang roundup and show it in the notta-Mustang class and maybe win a t-shirt. Or maybe take it for a drive and let the fast and furious, tomato can-mufflered Civic-driving kids try to guess just what the heck this is.
Or maybe I'll never finish it! I think that's the key. I'm already eye-balling TWM Induction's neat fuel injection setups....all the beauty of Webers without the hassle and upkeep.
Right now, posting pics and bench-racing with fellow Pinto'ers is most of the fun of monkeying with something like this in the first place.
Thanks, Scott, for providing us with a forum where we can dream/show off/exchange ideas whenever we feel like getting off that dirty shop floor and taking a break.
Paul
Well, the engine is in the Pinto. Now I'll spend the next few days/weeks monkeying with ancillaries and detail work. It's been a good day.
*no words* :o :o :o .. Just wow..
Nice! Very Nice..
By the way I priced a Holbaytwin cam head conversion "kit", you can still get the head conversion kit, but it's out of my price range only $14500.00 before shipping....
Quote from: fast64ranchero on February 19, 2012, 06:24:50 PM
Nice! Very Nice..
By the way I priced a Holbaytwin cam head conversion "kit", you can still get the head conversion kit, but it's out of my price range only $14500.00 before shipping....
for that price you can get one for each of your cars :o :o :o :o :o :o :o jk ouch :'(
brad :)
I talked to Ken Jacobs at Cosworth on Friday. I asked him if Cosworth still sold these engine kits. The answer is no, but he can put together one if need be from individual parts. He said it'd be much more expensive than back when I got this one, though.
Update: Today I built the radiator mounts. I had AFCO build me a custom radiator awhile back, and of course it doesn't fit the original spot. It only took a couple of hours and now all's ok.
I also discovered that with the "dropped" alternator bracket, I'll have to run a much shorter belt and keep the alternator tucked up closer to the engine to keep it from bumping the inner fender panel. I might just cut a bit away and make a new panel with a little more room. Of course, the adjuster arm's too long now. No biggie.
Same thing goes with the dry sump oil tank. The alternator pulley is a bit too close for comfort, so the tank's going to get a slight modification for peace of mind. It'll lose about a pint of volume, but it's a 10 quart tank, so I don't think it'll miss it.
I knew all this was going to happen, but didn't have a clue as to what to do until the engine was in the car. Now I know.
Note you can still get the parts from the U.K. and Ebay is still your friend. Also for that matter try a little north of U.S. yes you can if you can pay...
This is true. This engine is all over the UK and elsewhere (but here) in wrecking yards. It's used in "YAC" form in SCCA Sports Racing cars, too, so there are builders here in the States. Companies like Burton Performance sell parts, and you can find lots of bits on ebay. I found things like the dropped alternator bracket from an aftermarket company in the UK on ebay. Of course, that's opened a can of worms with clearing the inner fender, but it'll be worth the effort when I'm done (I hope).
I'll have plenty of leftovers from this kit when I'm done. For example, Cosworth provided a fuel pump block-off plate, but this engine block didn't need one. They provided a heater hose plate, but I fashioned my own and didn't use it. That little piece is bringing $$ on ebay right now. I'll be ebaying stuff like that myself soon.
Cosworth USA is selling an aluminum block now for $6,000.00. Ouch! That'd be about $100/pound of weight savings...out of my league! But it does indicate continued interest in this engine.
Cossiepinto, I wish you would have never started this thread ;) I searched and found a used but complete "kit" with a 4x4 Cosworth YB 16V head, complete with Rally Solid tappet cams, adjustable cam gears, mellow porting, Escort MK2 big tube header, Weber intake, Cosworth rods and Cosworth forged pistons. not cheap but it sure will look good ;D
Sorry Ranchero,
But the damage is done and the Cosworth's in your head now!
They aren't cheap, and I'm so glad I bought this one when I did...if I had to do it again it'd be tough to do.
Paul
Cossie, I can say, if you only paid $7,500 for your entire engine kit, you got a deal by todays prices! where are you located? I'm hoping to have the new head on for my June Vacation, I was going to go to the Fun Ford Weekend in Spokane June 9th, but it's not on the schedule anymore....
Ranchero,
I'm in San Angelo, Texas, which is probably out of the way for most Pinto Groupers.
Yes, I realize I got a deal for sure compared to today's prices. At the time I bought this engine, it was still in production, so parts were readily available and plentiful. Now the aftermarket is the main source and their procurement/stocking situation has understandably driven costs up.
I must say that the folks at Cosworth have never allowed me to feel like a "little guy" when dealing with them. I have had a great relationship with Ken Jacobs there. He's sent me bits I've needed from his old stock from time to time, too, from seals to an ARP stud kit. His supply of YB parts has dwindled since they've moved on to new stuff, but he's become my first choice (even over ebay) when I find I need something, and he's so well connected that I'm sure he can find anything I'd ever need.
The last (and only) time I visited Cosworth in Torrance, I was really impressed! Not only did I lay my eyes on a YB for the first time (it was being readied for someone's sprint car), but they had a whole shelf of Olds Quad-4 engines all built up for someone's race team. There must have been 3 or 4 of them. Cosworth should be on the itinerary for anyone traveling that way. It's an impressive operation and they're really friendly.
Busy weekend. I "widened" the engine compartment enough so that the alternator fits, mounted the radiator, and am still fitting the dry sump tank.
I am fabricating the tank mount now, and it looks like it'll all fit without my having to modify the oil tank itself. That's a relief.
Maybe a few pics soon.
Ok, I made some progress this past couple of weeks.
I finally got the oil tank and radiator mounted and not interfering with each other.
I also widened the inner fender to give the alternator a bit more room for adjustment. The alternator bracket is "dropped", which is cool, but it makes fitting the thing a hassle.
Also, you can see there's not much room for the oil tank to clear the alternator pulley. After lots of fiddling, it now does, with about a half inch to spare. Now I don't have to cut on the tank...I didn't want to do that!
Here are a few pics to look over.
Another pic of the oil tank bracket. Don't know why it didn't pick up the first time...
Looks nice.....
Been busy here, and the going is slow, fitting everything together.
My latest snag is getting headers. I found some in England that, after quite a bit of communication back and forth, look like a good bet they'll fit with little to no mods. Here's one of the pics I sent the guy in England and one of the pics he sent back. There are lots more pics with these headers in a Mk I Escort, which I discovered has the same frame to frame measurement as my car. Like I said, I hope it just goes right in, but if not, at least it can be made to fit pretty easily.
I've thought about having headers custom built here, but the idea of towing the unfinished car some distance and then going back weeks later to pick it up wasn't too appealing.
Regards to all, Paul
Quote from: cossiepinto on March 12, 2012, 06:59:24 PM
I've thought about having headers custom built here, but the idea of towing the unfinished car some distance and then going back weeks later to pick it up wasn't too appealing.
Paul, great project! I was in the same position with my pre-cossie twincam. Because of the super tight fit on the driver's side instead of passager side exhaust as you have, I HAD to go custom. I delivered the car and was told 2 1/2 weeks...4 months later, I got the car back. BUT, the guy did a fantastic job fitting equal tube headers where there was NO room. Your lucky you can go off the shelf. All and all, mine cost me about $800 plus a can of heat resistant silver paint.
71HANTO
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/71hanto/Pinto/IMG_0466-1.jpg)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/71hanto/Pinto/DSC02436-1.jpg)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/71hanto/Pinto/IMG_0450-1.jpg)
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/71hanto/Pinto/2011_329_.jpg)
you guys are both heroes!
how ya doing charles?
Hanto,
Nice pipes! Yeah, before I started doing my own welding, I took the Pinto to a friend's shop to do a few things. Three YEARS later, I got it back home! He did some great work, and the price was definitely right, but now that I'm welding I can do so much more. If I don't like what I did, I can just redo it, no harm no foul, no hurt feelings, no wasted cash, and no settling for something that I didn't quite have in mind.
The headers are same story: our first attempt didn't turn out so well. There are pics somewhere of the headers bolted on the mocked-up engine, and although they are nice enough, the front pipe hits the alternator, and they are so close to the inner fender that I have to loosen the motor mount to fix them in.
The new ones are a better bet. They fit the MkI/MkII Escorts, which have the same dimensions, frame rail to frame rail as the Pinto. And you're right, the exhaust on the passenger side helps a lot. My first choice was a BDA, which has exhaust on the driver side, and I'm sure it would have been a custom job as well.
I still have some concerns, but I think these will work with little to no mods. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, though.
Nice Pipes?- I have heard THAT in different circles...
Ohh, come on- I'm sure you have too. ::)
Scott,
Different forum, but did you ever get my message about the alternator bracket?
Paul
Paul,
Yes- I'll PM you back now. I have several that I have not responded to due to time constraints.
Thanks for reminding me,
Ok, Pinto'ers,
Here's an update on the Cosworth Pinto.
I got the radiator mounted for good today, as well as the oil cooler. I had to remake the oil cooler upper left bracket because of a radiator change awhile back. The cooler sits slightly off-center because the radiator was off center to begin with, and now it's a little more so. I'm going to leave it that way and call it "art."
I made sure the oil tank was thoroughly clean and mounted it for good, as well.
Next is to clean out all the oil hoses and mount them up. They've been sitting for so long I'm sure they need a bath.
Take a look at the two pics, one of the cooler and one of the carb plumbing. The -3 hose on the firewall lip with a little yellow cap is a bleeder hose for the internal clutch slave cylinder. I have to get some anti-chafing sleeve so those hoses won't try to eat each other once the engine is running.
More soon...
Now that is state of the ART for sure.... Just look at the size of them fuel lines. I for sure will have to make a trip and see that setup for sure..
Bigman,
The fuel lines are AN-6 (3/8 inch) from the pressure regulator to the carbs. The fuel supply line from the cell is AN-8 (1/2 inch).
Give me a little more time to get the headers in the car before you make the trek across Texas.
The headers haven't shipped out of England yet. The guy said it'd be two weeks, and it's been a week already. I sure hope they just fall in without any fuss.
Got some plumbing done this afternoon. All's I have left as far as oil lines goes is the oil supply line from the tank to the pump. That involves getting under the car, and I'm feeling too lazy this afternoon. Sounds too much like work.
Here are a couple of plumbing pics so far anyway.
Paul,
That is one of the cleanest engine compartments that I've seen.. ( I hope to get mine looking half as good as yours) I can't wait to see how your going to run the wiring.
Bigman,
It won't be long before I start the wiring. I'm dreading it, especially with summer coming on. I do have a Painless Wiring fuse box that will help, and many of my gauges are mechanical (tach, oil press, oil temp, water temp) so the dash wiring won't be too bad, but still the most tedious.
Paul
Paul, very, very nice. I know that I have a road trip planned for my 72 early next Spring. So whe you here a swarm of angry hornets coming your way. Don't run it will be the YF and me coming to see that amazing Cossie.
Please keep us up to date, I'm interseted in how the new header fits, the header I got for a MK1, look like they will not fit... I'm hoping yours drops right in..
Ranchero,
Me too! The supplier says the outlet of the header is above the frame rail, just about even with the exhaust ports on the head. Then the pipe that bolts to the collector follows the same path as other headers do. The advantage appears that no matter what kind of motor mount/starter/clutch (in right side drive England) you use, there's no interference.
My biggest worry is that the pipes may kick out a bit more and bump the inner fender shelf where the battery tray used to be. I removed the tray (rust) many years ago, and am now kicking myself for rebuilding the shelf instead of just pointing the inner fender wall directly down to the frame.
In case you missed the pics, here are a few of the headers. The first shows how snug they fit in an Escort. One of the others shows an optional tailpipe extension that takes two bends follow the firewall and get horizontal under the car. I got one of those, too, hoping I'd be able to use it.
One more pic, from underneath the Escort.
Iread somewhere that the frame for the two cars are pretty much the same..( I may be wrong) Hopefully you wont have too much troubles.
Quote from: Scott Hamilton on March 13, 2012, 09:03:35 AM
Nice Pipes?- I have heard THAT in different circles...
Ohh, come on- I'm sure you have too. ::)
oh we all have...at one time or another...but these are like header porn!!!!!!!!!
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19990.0;attach=39534 (http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19990.0;attach=39534)
Quiet weekend. Still waiting for the headers from England. But I did get into the brakes a little. Installed the master cylinders and a little plumbing.
Kinda wish my hands were on backwards a couple of times!
Great craft manship there. I'm borrowing ideas as you go along for sure.
Well, the headers are here and they're going to need a little work to fit. I've already started measuring, cutting, and measuring again. Now they bolt up to the engine, but I still need to put a little notch in the frame so they won't bump and rattle. The inner fender step where the battery tray was is gone now. I'll have to flatten it some and relieve the area around the header flange a little also. This means the engine is coming out tomorrow so I can get to all the area I must cut and weld. I worried that this might be the case and I've been prepared for it while still hoping nothing would need to be done.
If I'm lucky this won't take more than a long weekend to do. Pics as soon as everything's presentable again.
Paul
If it was easy everyone would do it! Your going to end up with a one of a kind setup!!!!
OK, here's the latest:
I cupped out a little area that aligns with the spot where the header gets closest to the frame. I also removed the step that was once the battery tray area, and am replacing it with a removable piece that allows me to fit the headers in over the studs. It requires a lot more room than I thought it would, but now I can fit the headers and trim the piece to fit nicely underneath.
Also, with the engine out I went ahead and fitted the headers so I could check for clearance around the bell housing and all is well there.
Here are a couple of hastily shot pics. Engine goes back in this week/next weekend.
Paul
Making progress, that's a good thing, what tranny is that? type 9?
Ranchero,
It's a Quaife-internals 4-speed Hummer, a.k.a. Rocket dogbox, with straight cut gears/no synchros. 2.04 low, close ratio, 1:1 top gear. 1st gear will feel like 2nd gear, but with a 4.11 or 4.86 (I'll try the 4.11 first), it should be fine.
at first glance, it looked like the 4x4 trans out of the euro escort
OK, the headers fit now, with the slight mod to the frame.
I cut out a small notch in the frame for insurance after I removed all of the porch the battery tray used to sit on.
That inner fender removal gives me all the room I need to work the headers into place. Now I'll make a panel to re-close the area, but it will still be removable when I need to remove the headers for any reason.
I had to modify the passenger side motor mount slightly also, but that wasn't a big deal.
I did discover why I'd had so much trouble putting the transmission cross member back in place, though. The extra thick aluminum cover on the Quaife transmission just barely touches the tunnel at the right rear corner. Also, the little breather fitting sits up against the tunnel solidly, which was making it hard to get the cross member to bolt up. I'll trim a spot out for those in the coming days. It won't require removing the engine. I'll just remove the cross member and let the engine tilt back and the transmission to drop a little.
Here are a couple of closeup pics of the pipes and the mod.
Paul
Ahh..... I just get aroused looking at this thread! Rock On Paul! 8)
Awesome project and I admire the workmanship.
That engine is going to sing a glorious sound at full song!
When I am in Hong Kong I always pick-up British car magazines.
I love the magazine "Fast Fords". Every issue is full of Cossie goodness. I think you can subscribe here in the states.
I love the British Escort Mexico's and Cortina's fitted with the Cosworth YB'T' engine.
I am curious why you did not go the YBT turbo route?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbg9DWnvsI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbg9DWnvsI&feature=related)
I will continue to check in and watch your progress. Keep us updated, the pictures are great!
Thanks for the good words, Starliner.
Cosworth offered this engine in kit form. They also offered a mechanical valve train engine (YBG), but I wanted a lower-maintenance, more streetable engine, so I bought the YBB.
I like the sound of a naturally aspirated engine sucking air through Weber air horns.
I admit, however, that I didn't have the turbocharger mounting brackets machined off the head!
Paul
Here are some photos of the final fit for the headers. They fit with about an inch of clearance at all critical points. The pipe sent with them will fit also, but it'll need to be indexed just right to clear the bell housing.
I'm now working on placing an inspection plate on the transmission tunnel, so the breather/fill plug won't hit the underside of the tunnel. I found out the hard way (almost impossible to bolt up AND then the plug isn't removable with the transmission in place) that I needed some more room. I'll send out some pics of that, too, when I get it all done.
It's been a little slow going this past couple of weeks: out of town last weekend and this weekend is my bride's birthday, so no Pinto work then!
Paul
Ok, here's what's up with the transmission tunnel modification so far.
The Quaife dogbox has an extra-thick top cover (about a half-inch) and the filler/breather stands up about another inch (not including the threads to screw it into the cover).
My first clue that I was out of room was when it was very difficult to bolt the transmission cross member in.
Of course, I ignored that clue. Luckily, I had to remove the engine again to fit the headers. This time, remembering how difficult the bolt-up was, I decided to remove the filler plug/breather and put in a temporary plug 'til I got the engine/transmission in. That worked great!
When I crawled underneath to replace the temporary plug with the filler plug/breather, only then did I realize that I had no room! I couldn't even get my fingers in there....
Hence the hole in the tunnel, etc, etc.
It's going to work out fine, though. The plate on top can be removed by drilling out rivets, if necessary, and there will be a cap that I can open to fill the transmission, if need be.
Paul
Cool project ! Been watching all along as you go.
The crank/trans/diff is in line well ?
So far as I can tell, all is aligned well. The only iffy part might be the pinion angle, as I'm not using a standard rear end. When I talked to the guys at Speedway Engineering, we settled on a standard pinion angle for the mini-quick change I bought from them. I can adjust it as necessary.
The Quaife is based on the Pinto German Hummer gearbox, so the standard Pinto bell housing (2 liter) bolts up nicely. When I decided to use an internal slave cylinder clutch bearing, I sent the measurements to Taylor Race Engineering in Plano, TX, to get the proper input bearing collar length.
If the Quaife had the standard sheet metal trans cover and no breather stack on top of it, the transmission would have slipped in with no worry.
You can see the mini-quick change in this pic with the fuel cell not yet installed.
Paul
Paul, what could anyone say. The car is one High tech piece of work for sure.
BigMan,
I don't know how high-tech the Pinto is; it has some goodies on it, but they're all pretty old-school. I do have electronic ignition, though...MSD. Old school high-tech!
Paul
Paul ,
This is pure Pinto fabrication Porn.. I'm addicted and I don't care who knows it! PM me if you ever want to do this again. Make sure this car is in every Ford mag .. I salute you sir.. ;)
Pintosopher, Student of the Wizards, Apprentice to the Fab Gods!
Thanks, Joe, but I don't want you to go blind viewing this project too often!
I'm wrapping up the transmission tunnel mod this weekend. I had to fabricate a cover and a short stack to clear the oil breather/filler on the top of the gearbox. I made a lid for it, but am not satisfied, so I'm going to try again.
I need to scare up a 3 3/4 inch diameter aluminum disc to make the lid. I'll look for something this week.
Right now, the plate is clecoed in place while I wait for my powder coat friend to do a batch of textured black...should be late this next week.
Paul
You could probably use a fuel bung cap like they sale at So Cal. I purchased one for my t-bucket . I think it would fit nice and look custom like the rest of your car.
Just my thoughts.
I do enjoy turning on the forum and seeing new post about your car!!
Keep it up there Mr. Cossie
West Texas has a pin in it for my power tour that the wife and me will be doing, either this Fall or next Spring
Bigman,
That might have worked if I'd have thought about it in time. I did need a little extra room to get my fingers in, so I could unscrew the thing, though. A fuel bung might have been a little too small.
Make sure you take a detour and come by San Angelo when you go on your tour!
Paul
Quote from: cossiepinto on April 29, 2012, 10:15:04 AM
BigMan,
I don't know how high-tech the Pinto is; it has some goodies on it, but they're all pretty old-school. I do have electronic ignition, though...MSD. Old school high-tech!
Paul
imho, hi tech means attention to detail, flawless (as much as it can be done) workmanship and the willingness to experiment. i suppose you could throw in some modern technology but 'old skool' is really just a way of saying that you can
use your imagination and the technologies at hand to perfect your dream
Thanks for the feedback, SRT.
My problem has been that as my capabilities/pocketbook have become more "capable", I keep doing do-overs. My wife wonders if I'll ever finish. It seems every milestone uncovers a new challenge. Right now, making everything fit has been slow, especially with only weekends to make things happen.
Paul, how long have you been working on the Cossie Pinto.
BigMan,
I bought this car in 1988. It had a hole in the side of the 2 liter engine and the back floorboard and spare tire well were full of rainwater. After getting a clear title, the roll cage went in, and I did a few things like putting an 8" rear end in and designing a big brake system for it. My first plan was to build another 2 liter or possibly buy a BDA (actually a 1700cc BDR) engine, but this plan evolved over time to the YB Cosworth engine.
There were times when the car sat for years (once for 3 years in a row) untouched, especially when we were raising our kids and getting them settled in life, etc. The Pinto always was last in line when it came to the budget.
Now, we're empty nesters, and time and money are a little more plentiful, hence the upswing in activity and spending. My wife now wants me to "finish the darned thing", and I'm happy to oblige. It's the Pinto's turn.
Funny thing is, over the years, with the Pinto front end becoming a popular piece for hot rodders who want to put independent front suspensions in, things I never dreamed of are now available: tubular a-arms and brake/hub packages, and nice shocks (although I scored a set of Konis from Racer Walsh years ago), etc. And, with Pintos becoming popular in mini-stock circle track racing, other suspension bits became available.
So, the short answer is the Pinto's been in the family for 24 years but it's resided in a nice dry garage, untouched for many of those years, waiting its turn.
Paul
Ok, here are a few pics of what's going on lately with the Cosworth Pinto.
I'm still waiting on the transmission tunnel cover to get back from the powder coater, so I made the engine/oil tank vent hoses up, permanently installed the carbs, headers, radiator, oil cooler, and oil tank.
I also timed the distributor. There's only one way it can go, since the right angle cap can only point one way. It's easy to monkey around with it, since you don't have to worry about the oil pump drive falling off the bottom into the pan when you yank the distributor up. I guess the added expense of the dry sump was worth it! Haha.
Once the transmission cover is in place, then will come the tedious wiring exercise. Hours I want to work on the thing are limited now that it's 100 degrees almost every day here by afternoon, sometimes earlier.
Enjoy.
Quote from: cossiepinto on May 07, 2012, 07:05:10 PM
Thanks for the feedback, SRT.
My problem has been that as my capabilities/pocketbook have become more "capable", I keep doing do-overs. My wife wonders if I'll ever finish. It seems every milestone uncovers a new challenge. Right now, making everything fit has been slow, especially with only weekends to make things happen.
methinks your loving wife might be a bit bit more miserable if you weren't able to 'do it right'
I try my best not to make her miserable....been married too long not to have learned that lesson! ;)
Just setteled a fight between my grand kids and found your thread. I had always dreamed of putting a cossi head on my pinto (1973 mini mark IV) after I saw the advert for 400 horses @ 8000rpm. Of course I am incapable of doing the work you have done let alone the quality you have done also. So thanks for letting me live my dream in an alternet universe.
You're welcome ponyrancher.
I've become more "capable" as time goes on, making mistakes and do-overs.
Four hundred horsepower from a naturally aspirated 2 liter YB Cossie is possible, but it'd be awfully rude and waspy in normal street use. Turbocharging would make that horsepower more easily, but it's still costly. I've seen claims of 700+ for race-tuned turboed YBs.
This little engine is tuned to about 200 horsepower, should idle normally, and will rev to about 7800 if it has to. I have set the rev limiter at 7200 rpm to start with.
Paul
New Weber condoms came in today. I hope I don't have to keep covers on much longer, but these fit nicely and should seal out dust better. Can't wait to put the filters on and light it up.
I know this is an old post but any more news.......I'm hooked. Now I want to find a Cosworth head for my 2.0.
1oldtimer I spoke with Mr Cossie just the other day, and he stated that he is down to running wiring and such.
I'm going to make a point to go by his place on my way back from Idaho in May.
It is an awesome build for sure.
Well, I'm still working on this thing, and judging from the hits I'm still getting, not everyone has lost hope that it'll ever get finished.
Here are a few pics of recent activity:
1- I had to redo the breather/filler tank for the mini quick change rear end, because the under-the-floor tank was so low it wouldn't refill the rear end quickly enough. I mounted a different one (mini-sprint type) on a vertical plate in the trunk, next to the fuel filter. You can see some plumbing there as well. The fuel pump is inside the cell, so that makes for a much less crowded area.
2- Yesterday I attached the calipers to both the front and rear. I only had to machine a tiny amount off the RR caliper to get it centered on the rotor. Everything's a tight fit with new pads, but that fit was just too tight, so I spot faced the caliper ears a smidge and all's well now. Funny, none of the other calipers required machining or spacers.
3- Just a look-see at the front caliper. Note how the hubs match front and rear. Speedway Engineering had matching stuff that I really liked.
4- HELP! Check out the red arrow in the last pic. What's missing? The brake hose tab, that's what. It's also missing on the other side. I spent a couple of hours fingering through all my stuff and they are either playing a masterful hide-and-seek, or just plain gone.
If anyone has a couple (I'm pretty sure right and left are the same), I'd gladly buy them from you. Please let me know.
WARNING : Prolonged viewing of this Thread can lead to Mental instability, and even a possible PDE-5 inhibition effect that may lead you to a therapist for extreme Pinto Lust. Prolonged exposure in excess of 4 years can cause serious financial and perceptual damage to your Psyche. You'll know it's too late when you begin imagining your household Plumbing with AN fittings and Earls hoses..
See your Life for what it can be , and build your horse to suit! :o
Very nice setup.. 8)
WILL CK MY PARTS CAR FOR THOSE BRAKE LINE BRACKETS IF YOU STILL NEED THEM, LET ME KNOW
THANKS
Yes, bbobcat75, I still need those brackets. Let me know if you find them and what you want for them and a money order will be on the way. Thanks!
ok will check tonight!!
If bobcat doesn't have them, I do. They are one my 72 parts car. Free. I'll even pay the shipping !
Canadians are such nice people ;D
Thanks, Reeves1. Let's give bbobcat a little more time, since he spoke up first. I'll definitely let you know if he doesn't have them.
just was checking the forum and saw my last post!! totally forgot to look, go ahead and send them Reeves1, I don't have them and forgot to post I am sorry for the delay!! here I am holding up progress on a great pinto build!! lol
take care
Thanks for checking, bbobcat. Reeves notified me today, and the parts will be on their way soon.
I just saw this thread and—you're probably sick of hearing it—just, wow.
Thanks Flygirl. No, it never gets old.
I'm getting the brakes plumbing all figured out now. I decided to use all AN plumbing instead of the automotive stuff, since it would have been a hybrid of AN/automotive anyway. I've been using up 3/16" brake line trying to get all the bends, etc., just right. So far, I'm not satisfied with the results, but every try looks better than the last. Yesterday I drilled out the rivets that held the plate to the firewall in this picture. I changed my mind about using automotive fittings, so I had to remake this plate. This time I put in rivet nuts and bolts instead of riveting again so if I change my design again I won't have to drill rivets! As you can see, it's a little tight down in there now, and I didn't want to remove the carbs, fuel lines, etc., so it was slow going.
Thanks for your interest.
Progress report: Wiring is finally underway, with a target of mid-February to finish up. I found a local wiring expert who will help me with this final hurdle. He has me on a strict schedule to get all the pieces into place that require wiring, so I'll be posting pics of some of these soon. I installed the wiper motor and cranks over the weekend, and put a fuel level sender in the fuel cell, for example. I climbed up in the attic and retrieved the inner fender pieces and installed them in the front fenders, too. They were in great shape when I put them up and after a little armor-all, they turned out just fine.
I got a little carried away with the headlight buckets. I had them powder coated instead of painting them with a rattle can, which would have been more than adequate. See the pics...nice!
I also replaced the Flaming River standard rack with a quick ratio rack. The standard rack has never been used, so if anyone is interested, I bet we can make a deal. The combination of the standard rack and the steering quickener would have made the steering way too heavy, I'm afraid, so I decided the new rack would be better for me.
Making some progress. I'm putting the instrument panel together now.
The last photo is a manifold I thought up for the oil pressure gauge. A hose runs from the engine to the manifold, then another hose to the gauge, using dash-3 hose and fittings. Then a pressure switch is attached to the manifold for the warning light, and another switch is a fuel pump cut-off, should the engine stop. I have a toggle switch that overrides this circuit for starting/priming the carbs.
just was wondering how this build was going!! looks great keep up the great work!
Paul- fantastisch!
Your Project is One I Always Look forward to Seeing Progress..
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It's looking great.
Thanks, guys. I'm still hooking up gauges and stuff. Today, after spending a couple of hours monkeying with the cable-operated brake bias adjuster, I decided it was more trouble than it's worth.
I removed the whole thing, and am going to put a key-operated ignition switch (on-off only) in the space. The brake bias cable apparatus is just not necessary. I can still set the brake bias with a 9/16 wrench and an allen wrench, and that's enough for my purpose: set it once and for all and forget it.
I'll try more update photos soon. I've done a lot, but just not posted in awhile.
What a fantastic build!!
Looking forward to seeing more as you post up progress.
Fozzy
Haven't been around in a while so been a pleasant surprise all the dedicated work that has gone into these sweet looking vehicles. Nice work. And attention to detail is impressive.
FYI ....I took an intake to be hot tanked in town - Westlock AB Canada.
One (new ?) guy working there had worked for Cosworth in England !
Guy is a 4 cyl nut case ;D
Reeves1,
Aren't we all?
Nothing posted lately about the Cosworth Pinto. I've pretty much taken the summer off. It's so hot in West Texas that staying in the shop to do tedious wiring is just brutal. It'll cool off soon, and I'll get some work done.
Thanks for staying interested.
Paul
That's why I haven't made much progress on my own stuff either. Too hot outside until 7pm+ and it's too dark by 8:30.
Keep up the good work...whenever it cools off enough to do so. 8)
Here's a little progess on the Cosworth Pinto. The rear valence replaces the huge bumper and shortens the car by about 10 inches. It completely covers the bracing behind the fuel cell, and gives the rear a pretty clean look. Also, the license plate is frenched in.