Pinto Car Club of America

Shiny is Good! => General Pinto Talk => Topic started by: tinkerman73 on April 13, 2011, 07:35:24 PM

Title: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: tinkerman73 on April 13, 2011, 07:35:24 PM
Well, interesting subject here. The other day driving my Pinto home, stopped at the parts store for another exhaust piece. When I came out, she had peed a little out of the overflow tube on the radiator. So I replaced the thermostate and gasket as well as the radiator cap. Now, they had a $2.00 thermostate, or a $2.50 pressure release thermostat(wich I ahve always preferred) and a $8.00 special order thermostat. Well, I got the pressure release cap. Also they had a dollar Felpro thermostat gasket or a $7.00 thick one with rubber seal wich was special order. I opted for the cheapy. Likewise, they had a cheap $6.00 thermostat, or a $8.00 special order one. I opted for the $6 one. Now, the car runs cooler then ever! However, this creates a new issue. I am no longer getting any heat! Would this be my radiator cap, or the thermostat? I think I will try the old radiator cap. But heck. Has anyone else here had this kind of cooling issue? I mean heating issue? LOL. I dont like having cold feet when they are wet after a day of working in the rain! LOL. Thanks.
Title: Re: Why, my feet are cold!!
Post by: dave1987 on April 13, 2011, 08:07:10 PM
I would think it would be a thermostat issue. But then again, you should still have a working heater even if your thermostat isn't working.

Now the question is, what is the thermostat you are using rated for? My 78 and my 73 both use 192 degree thermostats year round, but I am thinking the 78 will be getting a 160 installed for the summer since it is creeping up to 200 on warm days here.
Title: Re: Why, my feet are cold!!
Post by: Reeves1 on April 14, 2011, 06:24:34 PM
If your rad was low and you added water/anti freeze you may have ended up with an air lock ?

It should be kicking out at least some heat, even if the stat is stuck open.
Air lock or too low on coolant ?
Title: Re: Why, my feet are cold!!
Post by: tinkerman73 on April 14, 2011, 07:32:04 PM
Well, it is not the radiator cap. Car did fine today on the old one again! I do not know what the thermostat was rated for? HMMM< wondering maybe what it should be rated for here? Now, I did drain the radiator before tackling the thermostat. So a air bubble/lock it could be. It is not kicking out any heat! I never touched the heater core. Only took off the one hose on the outlet to change the thermostat. So, do I need to "burp" it by squeezing the radiator hose when its running? Better on the outlet or the inlet? Thanks.
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: tinkerman73 on April 17, 2011, 08:49:10 PM
Well, twice I have been able to get heat out of the sytem, but not much. The motor runs much cooler, so I would have to think that the thermostat I got was a lower temp rating one? But anyways, I am really thinking I have air in my heater lines. I have tried to burp the system by grasping and squeezing the upper and lower radiator hoses. But these seem to be pretty hard and not very flexible. So I was unsuccesful. Is there a different way? I was wondering about getting a pressure tester. Would this create enough pressure in the lines to force the air out? I am at a loss as it is beyond my skills so far. So help is needed! Thanks.
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: beaner on April 17, 2011, 09:15:10 PM
park it facing up a hill and let it run for a while it should burp the air out

brad :)
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: vonkysmeed on April 18, 2011, 02:21:24 AM
Quote from: beaner on April 17, 2011, 09:15:10 PM
park it facing up a hill and let it run for a while it should burp the air out

brad :)

I have always just cycled the car with the cap off.  What I do is run the car for about 15 minutes with the cap off (enough time to have the t stat open) and verify that the coolant is flowing.  I would then rev it a few times to up the pressure (internally since there is no cap on the system).  After that, I top it off (while running) and put the cap back on.  don't forget to turn your heater on while doing this so that there will not be any air pockets in your heater core.


Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: Reeves1 on April 18, 2011, 06:03:18 AM
When filling cold I take the top heater core hose off. Easier at the engine & no chance of damage to the heater core. Fill rad & when it flows out both open ends (if the spigot on the engine is lower than the heater core, plug with your thumb).
Hold the hose higher than the core.
When water comes out, put back on engine and tighten clamps.

Then run it like vonkysmeed says.

Works every time.
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: tinkerman73 on April 18, 2011, 07:38:28 PM
Thanks. Little time to do much. So, when I left work, I took the cap off. Ran about 20 minutes at 70 with heater on. When I stopped at the gas station, the fluid was cycling. Being warm, the hoses were soft. So I could burp it. Saw the fluis rise and fall each time, but not really any air. Put the cap on. Half a hour later, I got just a little bit of heat. Later, I tried and no heat! So I know that the thermostat is working. I know the heater core worked until I changed the thermostat. so, I may have to freeze my butt off in the dnow this week and try to get it up on the ramps Easter? Thanks. The heater hosr trick sounds good. Will try it. Thanks.
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: pintoman2.0 on April 24, 2011, 10:32:34 AM
I NEVER had this problem until I got my SVO. Every time I mess with the system it gets an air lock so bad that it doesn't flow through the motor either, always over heats. The way I do it is I have one of those couplers for the heater hose that has a regular hose connection. I fill the system through this and then run the system with this being the highest point until I don't get any air and when I turn the attached hose down I get coolant. If you have ever had a car with a 4.6 you know that in order to fill the system completely you have to use the port in the tube that runs in front of the alternator as that is the highest point in the system and the only way to not have an air lock.

P
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: tinkerman73 on April 24, 2011, 05:23:09 PM
Well, last night when I got home, she peed a little bit? I had time today so I undid the one hose and filled until I got fluid. Run the heater and the car for a while. Was still circulating. Dont think as strong as it should be though? Still no heat? I am at a total loss here unless I have a blockage is why she wanted to pee? But, that does not help the situation with no heat? Wish someone on here who knew what do do was close so they could come over and give me help and pointers etc! Dang it all. Atg least she got her new oil change. Had to, I have put almost 4,000 miles on it already since February! I went with synthetic oil and some Lucas. So see how she likes that stuff!
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: Reeves1 on April 25, 2011, 07:10:23 AM
How much head space are you leaving in the rad ?

Are you using any anti freeze ? If so, this "peeing" that is going on , hope you do not have pets......
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: sedandelivery on April 25, 2011, 07:47:38 AM
Just for the heck of it remove both heater hoses and backflush the heater core and see if it is blocked up with crap. Funny as it seems my father had an Acclaim with that problem. As far as the peeing, is the radiator clean inside? Maybe it could use a flush as well. Just a thought, and it doesn't cost anything.
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: tinkerman73 on April 25, 2011, 06:54:45 PM
The top I do is just barely above the down tubes. When I had changed the thermostat, I replaced the antifreeze with fresh. Ald was not bad shape yet. If there is a clog now, should have been there before one would think? LOL. But stranger things have happened. As for it peeing, it was iranically at the parts store. LOL. I think next time I pull off of the exspressway and stop at the store, I will leave it running so it will cool down some first so it wont be so prone to instantly boil over? Flushing the radiator will cost is I will need to get the kit and new radiator fluid. LOL. But I may try to do just the heater core redneck style next weekend? Thanks.
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: Starliner on April 30, 2011, 09:39:02 PM
Here is what I would do...

1.  Buy a brand name thermostat between 190 to 195 degrees F.     Stant is a good brand that comes to mind.
2.  Drain the system and install the thermostat.
3.  Fill with NEW anti-freeze and mix 50/50 with water.   Too much anti-freeze can make the engine run hot and also make your heater not as effective.  Leave the radiator cap off.
4.   Pump the gas once and start the engine.   It should be running at a fast idle.
5.  Watch the coolant level while the engine runs.   Top off as needed. 
6. Feel the top hose from time to time. (Be careful of the fan!)  It will get very hot after the thermostat opens and the coolant starts to flow.     At this point the coolant will either drop and need topping off again or it could overflow.    Feel the water in the radiator with you finger.   Is it real hot!  If yes, install the radiator cap and go for a short drive with the heater on.   Two miles ought to do it.
7. Return home and turn off the engine.    Open the hood and let it cool for 40 minutes.
8. Remove the radiator cap and check the radiator level.  It should be about 1 inch below the filler.   If it is low, add more coolant mix.
9.  Done!      Check it again the same way after your next drive just to make sure.

About the "peeing"....
This is normal.      When the engine gets hot the coolant expands.   It has to go somewhere.  So it goes out the overflow tube near the radiator cap.   That is why the coolant level is set about 1 inch down.   If the radiaitor is filled to the top it will pee everytime!     The reason it pees after you turn off a hot engine is because of "heat soak".  In other words, when the hot engine is turned off more engine heat is obsorbed into the coolant making it expand more. 

You can fix peeing...
Install an aftermarket coolant overflow kit.  All newer cars have this.  This is a good thing.   You help the environment and you can guarantee that your coolant system is always full.   It is low cost and easy to install.  You can also check your coolant level without removing the radiator cap.
See the overflow kit i have on my old 1600 Pinto at this link.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29396384@N05/4785368562/in/photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/29396384@N05/4785368562/in/photostream)

I would also use a Stant brand radiator cap with the pressure release lever instead of the cap that may come in the overflow kit.   
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: Starliner on April 30, 2011, 09:45:18 PM
BTW..  in the linked picture you will see my coolant overflow system, the white plastic bottle is the reservoir tank.
I keep that about half full when the car is cold. 
It is better to mount this as high as possible. 
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: tinkerman73 on May 01, 2011, 05:52:11 AM
Thanks. I have done the flush on the heater core and still nothing. So I am going with the thermostat being either the wrong setting or not working properly. Well, the engine stays very cool. Thus it must be working, just not letting it get hot enough to give me any heat! LOL. Thanks.
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: Reeves1 on May 01, 2011, 08:43:32 AM
tinker - I've had to replace heater cores in older Ford pick ups before, for much the same reasons you are having.
When you flushed the heater core (ie: both hoses off) did it seem to have real good flow ?
If not, the core may be hooped. New ones are cheap.

I also had an F-100 that had really poor heat, yet flow seemed not too bad. Took the core out and it was impacted with dust/dirt/grain (old farm truck). Cleaned it out and put it back. It promptly started leaking.
Replaced with a new one & never had another problem.

Anyway, the more about your problem the more I think it's not the thermostat or an air leak.......
Title: Re: Air in my cooling lines?
Post by: tinkerman73 on May 01, 2011, 04:03:50 PM
Seamed like good flow to me. See, what I dont get, it worked too good until I changed the thermostat! Was hot. Two hours later, it has never really been warm again!