Hi. I've been lurking the forums a while. Lot's of good info here and seems like some cool folks, willing to share knowledge. I'm pretty deep into trying to rebuild a 2.3 from a '77 cruising wagon and I'm sure to need some advice.
I have never rebuilt an engine but am mechanically inclined, can read directions and pay attention to details so I thought I'd take this on. Because basically, I can't afford to have professionals do it for me.
So far, I'm still in the stage of taking things apart and cleaning everything. That's not too hard. It's the whole "put everything back together and have it work" that I'm feeling intimidated by!
I don't have specific questions right now. Just looking for general advice from anyone who's done this before.
Once I start to put it back together, I'll probably come back here with some questions...
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So I gather that most people on these forums are pretty advanced in mechanical knowledge, I just wanna say thanks in advance to anybody willing to entertain my newb questions. I have a couple already....
Buying an oil-pump. I see that there's a "high-volume" option that's about $50 more than the standard. Is there any special reason why you'd want this, other than "more is always better"?
I don't own a torque wrench. I've heard some people say it's a must if you're rebuilding an engine and others say it's fine just to "tighten things down real good".., what are opinions here on exact torquing of everything?
1. Buy a good torque wrench
2. Buy a good repair and assembly manual for your engine.
3. Follow the instructions in the manual and don't be afraid to ask questions.
4. Keep everything clean.
5. Remember that EVERYBODY had to learn by doing!! BIG BILL
I have a spare 2.3 for my 77 wagon. So I will be wanting to watch this to prep myself for the future project. Likewise, any costs entailed so I can sell myself for the price! LOL. Wait, dont tell the devil I said that! LOL. Likewise any hop up options. I may still go idea of a turbo. But..... I do have the spare motor already. If I was to rebuild that, then drop it in, I could rebuild the seconddone and have another spare. LOL.
Okay, I'm back with another newb question.
What's the preferred method of removing the large pin from the connecting rod to the piston?
Looking like it requires a specialized tool or shop equipment I don't own, unless I'm missing something...
Quote from: Jef_Leppard on March 14, 2011, 10:59:44 AM
Okay, I'm back with another newb question.
What's the preferred method of removing the large pin from the connecting rod to the piston?
Looking like it requires a specialized tool or shop equipment I don't own, unless I'm missing something...
You are going to want to use a hydraulic press to press out the piston pins.
Thanks for the reply.
Don't have access to a press, guess I'll have to take them somewhere and have them done for me...
When I did rebuild my 2.0 I took the pistons to a shop to have the pins removed, it was only 5 bucks apiece for removal and installation on the new pistons. It was well worth the money.
Got to love NAPA
Jef,
When it comes time for you to put it all back together, I strongly agree that a torque wrench is needed. Esp if you are kinda green in this area. Good news is you don't have to be able to afford one to use one. AutoZone (and other parts stores) have a SPECIALTY TOOL RENTAL PROGRAM. You just pay a deposit up front, and get the money back when you return the tool. A torgue wrench is always available at my local AutoZone. Great way to do it right, cheap. Just my 2 cents.
Here is a list of bolts that I would never tighten without a torque wrench. (Anyone feel free to add to this list if I misssed any.)
HEAD BOLTS!!!!!!!! For sure... every time. In fact most newer vehicles require new head bolts, as they design them to stretch into shape with the propper torque.
PISOTN ROD BOLTS
MAIN BEARING CAP BOLTS
CAMSHAFT PLATE BOLTS
CRANKSHAFT BOLT
FLYWHEEL/TORQUE CONVERTER BOLT Very Important as this part applies all the power from engine to transmission
ANY ALLUMINUM PART Timing covers, water pumps, bellhousings, and intake manifolds. Because of the difference in strength between metals. Never over-torque alluminum.
OIL PUMP BOLTS
Well I am near the end! At the point of bolting everything back on. Been following the proceedure from the Haynes manual. There was a learning curve for sure for somebody with no experience but I found most of it pretty straightforward.
Only thing is, I did make (I think) a stupid mistake.
I was very careful photographing everything as I took it apart and made marks, etc. to help with reassembly BUT somehow I neglected to mark the position of the distributor.
It is somewhat visible in a couple of my photos but I don't have a definite reliable way to install the distributor and be sure it's in the exact position.
Or is this not as big a deal as I think it is? I'm worried about this...
Have you set the timing belt? If you have already and you set the rotor under number one cylinder you should be ok. You may have to play with the timing to get it to start and then you will have to time it once you get it running.
Quote from: TIGGER on May 03, 2011, 02:58:55 AM
Have you set the timing belt? If you have already and you set the rotor under number one cylinder you should be ok. You may have to play with the timing to get it to start and then you will have to time it once you get it running.
You mean that the rotation of the distributor unit itself isn't important, as long as the rotor is pointing to the #1 cylinder on the cap to start?
I do have the rest of the engine at TDC and the timing belt is on.
Thanks for responding by the way. When I ask these engine 101 questions on here and days go by with no response I wonder "did I just ask the most ignorant thing ever?" haha Still learning this stuff.
About the high volume oil pump, they are also high pressure and require a larger bearing gap for the rods and crank so that the "float" on the pool of oil. Without that you will blow oil everwhere. That said, unless you are a master mechanic building a race engine, get the standard oil pump. You should pump 50 psi out of one. Get a good brand. Do not be cheap with engine rebuilds, pay good money for good parts. Do it once and drive it 200k. Also, get or rent a GOOD torque wrench. A $15 swap meet special is a good way to rebuild your motor a second time. Remember what I said about being cheep? Trust me, I have done everything you can imagine wrong. I sure know what not to do. Hope this helps. Here are some images of my 80 pinto engine build. 25k on the motor now, 122 RW HP and 34 MPG with an auto. All i did is balance everything to 0 grams, check all gaps, dyno tune engine and carb and now I have a completely reliable, non oil dripping or burning car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26161002@N03/sets/72157605434443906/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26161002@N03/sets/72157605434443906/)
Holy crap I think it's done. So.......... turn the key?? I think I'm terrified! Four months of work, never did this before, so much that could go wrong.... Might need to do a couple shots and come back. Looks decent enough anyway....
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thanks a lot for everyone's advice! Well.... here goes nothing!
That is one neat and clean engine compartment!
Well it cranks and cranks and there is fuel at the carb but it won't turn over. Figured it wouldn't be easy...
do you have spark?
I'm working alone here so testing for spark might be a little tricky. I did use some starting fluid in the beginning and was getting some sputtering though so it would seem like I am.
There are two terminals you can use to "crank" the engine at the starter solenoid on the firewall while having a plug undone and close to the block or somewhere you can reach while using an insulated screwdriver to terminate the two poles on the solenoid. if you see spark then the coil is good. if you were getting sputtering it could be that there is too much fuel getting into the motor. or Not enough.
another thing you can do is disconnect the fuel from the carb, and then crank the motor using the above technique and see if you are getting sufficient flow. if not you might have a blockage in the line. if you have fuel getting to the carb and it has not been rebuilt then it might be a good time for that. I just did mine a few days ago. hope any of this Info helps.
Crap. Still no luck.
I took off the timing cover to make sure again that the gears were where they were supposed to be. Got everything back to TDC, distributor back to #1. Everything was where it was supposed to be all along.
I definitely have spark. I checked the cables with a timing light and visually checked the plugs for spark, that's all good.
If I pump the carb, I can see fuel squirt.
I'm at the limit of what I can think of to do here.
i had a similiar prob with my 74 a couple years ago.. I would only get spark when the ignition key was in the cranking position when i let off the key it would die.dont know if this will help but dont give up... :)
Yeah I'm def getting spark while cranking but it still will not even start. Sometimes i get a little sputter, other times crank and crank and nothing. This was my first try at rebuilding an engine. maybe something is wrong internally...
I'm wondering about timing.
my first though is it is 180 out of time . each piston has 2 tdc on on intake and one for exhaust. if you had it on the exaust stroke it is 180 out of time ie is very easy to mistake the strokes, but the intake strok usualy has a little more pressure. i have never tried on a fresh rebuild. maybe somene else can give you a better help on that. good luck . when you get running will you be at carlisle?
jef I agree with phil and Dholversn, Check your timing. I had not thought about the timing being out.
I set the timing by lining up markings on the gears for the crank and the cam with pointers inside the timing box.... Maybe I'm not sure what you're meaning by 180 degrees but if that were the case, wouldn't that mean a mark on one of the gears would be on the opposite side from the pointer?
Maybe I need to take some photos of some of this stuff....
Even though I was feeling confident that I had the cam timing correct, I did try rotating it 180 to see if I was wrong. Still the same.
here is my idea.. Mark you plug wires.. Remove them and rotate them on the dist. Clockwise one spot try this at least twice to see if the dist is off.. Not the cam timing
I'm with dave. I've had times where I have removed my distributor and the car refused to crank. I have to pull the distributor, rotate it 1/4 or 1/2 way around and then reinstall it. Eventually I get it right.
I had an issue with my 73 wagon's 2.0 distributor which I just recently changed out. The car refused to start, but rotating the distributor 1/8 of a turn and then cranking the motor again, I got closer and closer to where I needed to be, eventually after much trial and error I got the distributor set right and it turned right over!
I think we're on the right track with the timing. I rechecked the distributor at TDC and the rotor was almost 90 degrees off! I reinstalled the distributor and now I get a steady sputtering as I crank, which I wasn't getting before.... The engine seems just on the verge of firing up.
Hopefully its just a matter of finding the perfect spot for the distributor?
It sounds like you are on the right track. I would go ahead & rotate the distributor to see if that helps fire the car. since it is now sputtering like it wants to start.
Just a thought, but have you pulled the plugs to see if they are wet with gas? If so that could also be causing a starting issue. One word of advice.. once you get her started check the oil. If it smells like gas change it. All the pumping & failed attempts to start may have washed the oil down with gas, which is never good.
Yeah, there is gas on the plugs. This previous owner had installed a rather oversized Holley carb on it. It is tweaked down as lean as it could go but it is definitely a big carb for the engine.
it will all be worth the time and hassle when you get to go for a drive... Good luck!!!! :)
Timing issues aside, can anybody tell me the correct way the wiring harness attaches to the alternator?
I have the thicker wire where is is supposed to go but the two smaller wires with the black and the orange connectors I am unsure about. The manual is no help, it just basically says "pay attention to where they go before removing them" .. well I didn't. My alt meter is motionless. Worried that I'm probably not getting charge to the battery...
I can't look at my car as it just went to the body shop last night, but I think there is only one way the wires will hook up. The nest thing zi can think is to take a volt meter to the battery with the car running. You should be seeing around 13.5 to 14.2 volts. If you dont have a meter most places have them for around 10 bux or so & that is a vital tool you will use over & over when working on your car.