Pinto Car Club of America

Welcome to FordPinto.com, The home of the PCCA => General Help- Ask the Experts... => Topic started by: blupinto on November 23, 2010, 09:08:52 PM

Title: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on November 23, 2010, 09:08:52 PM
I have adjusted Ruby's clutch cable twice since I bought her in March. I'm thinking I might not be doing something right. I know about the adjusting and lock nuts, the 1/4 inch gap, the pulling of the cable towards the front of the car... but is the gap disappearing so fast a sign that I need a new clutch? (please say no please say no please say no. lol)
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on November 25, 2010, 06:55:24 PM
Huh. Guess no one else knows either. :-\
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: D.R.Ball on December 25, 2010, 09:08:28 PM
Yeah it the clutch, what's the deal it's a real simple easy to do job...I did my first job in my folks house. All you need is a good set of jacks and jack stands and of couse tools.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: earthquake on December 26, 2010, 10:11:18 AM
It could be your cable.They will start to stretch just before they break as strands let go or the ball starts to pull off of the ends.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 02, 2011, 08:42:02 PM
Thank you guys for answering. It's sounding kind of ominous. The 1/4 space between the housing and the adjusting nut is gone again. I have tools and a good jack and jackstands... what I don't have is money and expertise. :-\
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: Bigtimmay on January 02, 2011, 11:57:29 PM
Its more then likely the clutch  but as for needing a new one is it slipping? if not i would just re-adjust it and go with it manual clutchs are always needing adjusted specially if the cars driven quite a bit. My old 79 3/4 ton chevy i had got adjust once a month but i was hard on that truck lol.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 03, 2011, 12:40:33 AM
It's not slipping that I can tell, but I adjusted it in November. Unfortunately, there's a lot of stop-and-go between my house and work. Damn signals! >:(
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: Pangra74 on January 03, 2011, 04:07:05 PM
Hey Becky,

It doesn't sound right that it would need to be adjusted that so often, even with commute driving. I drive mine to work occasionally with lots of stop and go and maybe adjust the cable 2 or 3 times a year. I use the trans a lot for up and downshifting, so I use my clutch frequently. When the cables start to stretch and possibly snap, the amount of freeplay at the top will increase significantly and continue to increase as the cable gets longer as it comes apart. Usually when a clutch is wearing out, aside from slipping, the freeplay starts to go away as if the cable has gotten shorter.
If you can put it in 3rd or 4th gear while standing still and stall the engine when you let in the clutch, it's probably not slipping. If the engine won't stall when you let in the clutch, then it's definitely weak.......just my 2 cents.

The only other possibility is that the locknuts are not tight and its working itself out of adjustment by vibration, something that Pinto's have plenty of!

Joe
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 03, 2011, 09:08:54 PM
Hey Joe! Thank you! I will try the stall-at-3-and-4 and see what happens. It could be possible that the dumb nuts are loosening, even though I do try to tighten them up good (awkward while under the car). I do notice that after I depress the clutch pedal and release the pedal doesn't come all the way up (I can push it up from below with my foot). I am not losing power like I did last year after the Fab Fords show, so that's good. I don't want the cable to break before I get a chance to upgrade my AAA roadside assistance, or they won't do it (new policy of theirs- if you've been towed within a year's time you can't upgrade to the 100 mile tow package).
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: Pangra74 on January 03, 2011, 09:21:46 PM
If the cable is really old the spring on the end could be tired and not pushing the pedal back all the way. You should normally have about 3/4" of freeplay when the pedal is all the way up before you fell tension against the cable.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 04, 2011, 12:25:24 AM
Question: Is the tired old spring something I should worry about? I know the clutch was replaced at least once by her original owner (the car's).
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: Pinto5.0 on January 04, 2011, 07:33:14 AM
You need the spring to keep the freeplay set. Without it the throwout bearing rides on the pressure plate & burns up prematurely.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 04, 2011, 04:50:23 PM
I wonder if that's what happened with my green wagon... well, this s u c k s. I'm hoping next month I can get the stuff for the wagon and maybe "experiment" with me replacing the throw-out bearing and pressure plate to see if I'll screw it up (on the wagon).  If that's successful I'll attempt the red one. The cable itself is clearly another issue... :(   Thank you all for your help.  :)
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: Fred Morgan on January 15, 2011, 05:12:56 PM
Becky, see the wire on fork it has a spring on it and is hooked to trans cross member making sure the bearing isn't spinning while driving.  Fred   :)
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 21, 2011, 10:25:24 PM
Today after work I went to investigate Ruby's clutch cable issue, abd discovered a couple things: 1) the quarter-inch gap that was supposed to be in front of the clutch boot was behind the clutch boot (housing), and 2) the adjusting nut behind the clutch boot was VERY loose. Once more I crawled under the car and adjusted and tightened nuts. After all that my clutch pedal was still loose. I looked at the green wagon's pedal and cable and see no difference except the wagon's has no looseness. For the life of me I can't find a spring, just where the cable attaches to the clutch pedal, a rubber grommet attached to the firewall where the cable goes through and becomes way wider... followed the cable visually to the clutch housing... but saw no spring in either cars' pedal and cable assemblies. The little black rubber bumper on the top of the clutch pedal doesn't reach its contact... by maybe two inches. The clutch seems to be fine, though. Still... what am I missing here? :-\
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: Pangra74 on January 22, 2011, 01:41:20 AM
Becky, there has to be a spring on the transmission end of the cable. It's part of the cable. Wraps around it similar to the throttle cable on the carbureter. That's what pushes the pedal back up. Without it you will have no freeplay and the throwout bearing will be constantly spinning with the clutch lever resting on it. Not good. The clutch will still work as it's springs will push the clutch lever back, but without the cable spring the lever/throwout bearing will constantly be leaning on the clutch plate. I think someone posted a pic of the clutch cable in this thread. You can add your own spring like he did to pull the lever back. You just have to go without the rubber boot.

Joe
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: Pangra74 on January 22, 2011, 01:43:57 AM
Yeah it was Fred who put that pic up there. You can see the end of his cable and the spring on it. If there is no spring you have to remove the boot like his and add one from the lever forward to the crossmember somewhere. Quick fix.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 23, 2011, 02:05:03 AM
Is this spring inside the clutch housing boot? All I see outside of the boot is threads where the nuts go.

Fred, I'm still trying to figure the picture out. I recognize the drive shaft but everything else looks unfamiliar. If it's safe to pull the boot I will.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: oldkayaker on January 23, 2011, 07:23:14 AM
From your sign in , I am assuming you are working on a 72.  If you are using the Ford 72 manual, note that there is a typo in the clutch adjustment procedure.  They fixed this typo in the 73 and 74 manuals.  The 72 instructions are correct up until you get to the last step of tightening rearward most jam nut.  The 1/4" spacer should be removed before tightening the rearward most jam nut and not after as the 72 manual says.  When done there should be no gap between the jam nuts and the housing (front and behind).

Being lazy, I never read the manual until now so never used the 1/4" spacer method.  I did the adjustment based on pedal feel.  With pedal depressed, check that gears can be shifted into with out grinding.  With the pedal up, check for some pedal free play.  The Ford method sounds more precise.

Fred's picture is looking up with the rubber boot totally removed. To see the factory spring, the boot needs to be disengaged from the aluminum housing and pulled rearward.  The spring is concentric around the inner clutch cable in front of the clutch fork.  The spring has about a 3/8" outside diameter.  In Fred's picture, the wire connected to the clutch fork heading rearward is to an extra spring added to assist the factory spring (neat idea when needed).  Not having worked on later models, I am assuming this "extra spring" is not stock.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: dga57 on January 23, 2011, 11:53:25 AM
Quote from: oldkayaker on January 23, 2011, 07:23:14 AM
From your sign in , I am assuming you are working on a 72. 


     Actually, she's working on a 1971.  The picture she uses as an avatar is of her original Pinto, which was a blue 1972.  Her '71 is red.  Probably not all that different, though.

     Dwayne :smile:
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: oldkayaker on January 23, 2011, 02:46:27 PM
Yea I made several assumptions and guesses as to what was causing bluepinto's problem.  The 71 Ford manual shows using a 0.135" spacer for adjustments.  The 71 manual shows the cable adjustment using a C clip instead of jam nuts but does not appear to have any obvious typo's.  My first Pinto was a 71 manual but I do not remember this C clip arrangement.  Maybe mine was a late year model or the memory is fading again.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: Fred Morgan on January 23, 2011, 02:54:39 PM
Here is the spring with light tension on it just enough to keep fork all the way back to rear of car.  Fred   :)
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 23, 2011, 04:40:22 PM
Ahh... I see the spring you're talking about... now what have you anchored it to?

I tried the coat-hanger idea (not enough tension), not knowing Fred had another spring involved, so genius that I am I thought, " How about a thick rubber bungee cord?!" It might have too much tension... when I attempted to put the car in the driveway the shifter would only go into reverse willingly. AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, when I lifted the hood this morning the rear locknut was WAAAAAY loose and had worked itself about an inch away from the housing. I cannot physically pull the cable towards the front of the car like all the books I have say to do. No wonder I prefer automatics!

Speaking of info, the information for how to adjust the clutch cable came from two different Chilton's Pinto and Pinto/Bobcat books, the Ford shop manual, the Ford Pinto DIY book (black cover) and Haynes Pinto 1971-1974. I'm probably gonna have to leave this to the professionals. It's too bad Drew Ford couldn't help in this department. This might throw a wrench into the Stampede thing. I'm really discouraged now. :(
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: postalpony on January 25, 2011, 03:43:25 AM
 

   I wish i was nearer to you, I would make it work. I have been known

   to repair things that people were going to scrap. Thats why I am the

   CEO of BTF Engineering.  (BTF) beat to fit.  Seriously I wish I could

   be there & help you out.  Don't give up I am looking forward to meeting

   you at Carlisle!   All my best to you.    Dick aka Postalpony   :smile: :smile: :smile:
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on January 25, 2011, 08:18:39 PM
Dick, I wish you were closer too! lol  :lol:  I look forward to meeting you, as well as the others who will make this great milestone show! This weekend will be "fool with the cable and spring" time, so who knows? A miracle may happen... or mayhem (I'm betting on the latter).  ??? 
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on February 01, 2011, 08:18:15 PM
Ok I think I have a clue...wish I took automotive classes in school now...
Jimmy tried to tell me how to do the clutch cable adjustment (not the way any of my books described it as well) and I thought I knew what he was saying in the Shout Box but apparently I needed an extra nudge. That nudge came via a poor lil '78 Pinto at the wrecking yard. I see now what Jimmy was trying to tell me!!! I will attempt to do this RIGHT as soon as I can get some time. Thank you Jimmy Shifflett!  ;D
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: 71pintoracer on February 01, 2011, 09:15:21 PM
You are most welcome Miss Becky!! I'll check back to see how it went!  ;D
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: dga57 on February 02, 2011, 02:11:15 AM
Quote from: blupinto on February 01, 2011, 08:18:15 PM
Ok I think I have a clue...wish I took automotive classes in school now...
Jimmy tried to tell me how to do the clutch cable adjustment (not the way any of my books described it as well) and I thought I knew what he was saying in the Shout Box but apparently I needed an extra nudge. That nudge came via a poor lil '78 Pinto at the wrecking yard. I see now what Jimmy was trying to tell me!!! I will attempt to do this RIGHT as soon as I can get some time. Thank you Jimmy Shifflett!  ;D

     Sounds encouraging!  Here's hoping it works!!! :drunk:

     Dwayne :smile:
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on February 02, 2011, 09:22:38 PM
Well guys...
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on February 02, 2011, 09:29:10 PM
IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you thank you THANK YOU Jimmy and everyone who had faith in me. I was very clueless as to what I was trying to do with the clutch cable, but Jimmy's advice about that rear adjusting nut, plus seeing a "normal" clutch cable at the wreckers yesterday produced that "Eureka!" moment we all love. There is no more floppy clutch pedal... no more refusal to shift. Ruby was taken on a test run tonight and passed with flying colors! Thank you all  for the advice and good wishes. It's nice to win now and then... ;D
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: dave1987 on February 02, 2011, 10:16:14 PM
Congratulations Becky! :D

Now hopefully I can fix my 78's clutch pedal in the next couple weeks. I don't have excessive play in the clutch, just the pedal. That is, mine wobbles left and right about 2 inches because of the angle at which the Mustang II cable is on my pedal.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on February 02, 2011, 10:36:34 PM
Thank you Dave!  :D   I wish you success on your '78's clutch pedal.
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: postalpony on February 03, 2011, 12:03:12 AM
 
  Way to go Becky!!!  I am so glad you didn't
  give up.  That earns you a BIG hug when you
  and I meet on the way to or at Carlisle.

                         All my best to you---Dick
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: dga57 on February 03, 2011, 12:07:02 AM
Becky,

I just KNEW things were going to work out!  Jimmy is awesome!  So glad you've got Ruby on the road again!  Congratulations!

Dwayne :smile:
Title: Re: clutch cable
Post by: blupinto on February 03, 2011, 09:31:25 PM
Thank you Dick and Dwayne! You're getting hugs back!!! ;D