I can see the 2.8L V6 topic is very hot right now, so with that fresh in everyone's minds, I have some important questions (and I am hoping Pintopower will chime in ;D).
I have a '76 wagon with the 2.3. Yes, yes, I actually have TWO 2.3 motors, but I have been leaning towards the 2.8 for some time, and with the engine compartment bare, there's no time like the present. I also have an 8" rear end, no worries there. A local guy has a rebuilt 2.8 for $600, which i am investigating. Given that:
1) Will the 2.8 fit the '76 engine compartment?
2) Would it use the same motor mounts as the 2.3?
3) WHAT MANUAL tranny would work behind this motor?
4) What other peripheral items would I need to allow for this (radiator, obviously, and perhaps headers (good luck there), what else?)
I would SURE appreciate the 2.8 guys chiming in here. Any tips/tricks/etc.
THANKS!
Chris
im pretty sure you would need a different trans or atleast a different bell housing. The motor mounts are different if your car was a 2.3 with a/c and has the 20 inch radiator it would prolly work but not 100% sure on that.
The motor should fit in the engine bay.
As for doing the swap me personally i wouldnt i had a 79 with the 2.8 its was aight but well the 2.3 can have just as much power and still get just as good gas mileage if not better and the 2.3 will last forever come on look how long most have lasted already lol.
well, Ive had my bobcat for about 5 years now, I love the 2.8 thats in it. you can swap one in but you need the 2.8 mounts im sure.
you can use the mustang v6 4 spd if you can find one. My 2.8 has over 400k on it and still runs well. so reliability is on the owner and how they take care of the engine. same goes with any motor. mine has been well cared for. by my father and me. regular oil changes help. i think i do mine every 1500 miles or so ( i know thats early but its helped keep things working wel). so its all dependant on what you wanna get out of it =)
At the risk of getting 2.8 fans mad at me, I would not bother trying to switch to a V-6. I used to have a 77 Bobcat w/ the V-6 and it did not seem that much more powerful than a 2.3. The gas mileage was not very good, and the engine is really packed in there so it was hard to work on. The most positive thing about it was that it ran smoother than a 2.3.
mike
Hi, i can't comment on the swap, however I am sure you won't have any probs fitting it in. Guys toss in V8's after some mods and they fit. I can give info on this thou....
4) What other peripheral items would I need to allow for this (radiator, obviously, and perhaps headers (good luck there), what else?)
the header part is not that hard if you can find a 1985-86 ford aerostar with the 2.8 in it. ford made a custom header that was installed factory with every 2.8. I can post a pic of mine if you want to see them.
cheers
theres a set of 2.8 headers on ebay right now lol dunno if they are really for a pinto or not but they are listed under pinto parts
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-2-8-V6-CHROME-HEADERS-CAPRI-MUSTANG-2-PINTO-GASSER-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53e1953c40QQitemZ360266939456QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-2-8-V6-CHROME-HEADERS-CAPRI-MUSTANG-2-PINTO-GASSER-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53e1953c40QQitemZ360266939456QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
Quote from: lugnut on June 03, 2010, 01:49:26 PM
At the risk of getting 2.8 fans mad at me, I would not bother trying to switch to a V-6. I used to have a 77 Bobcat w/ the V-6 and it did not seem that much more powerful than a 2.3. The gas mileage was not very good, and the engine is really packed in there so it was hard to work on. The most positive thing about it was that it ran smoother than a 2.3.
mike
Many of these points were addressed in a very old motortrend test drive report i have (somewhere.) The power was rated about the same with v6 with auto and l4 with stick.
V6 was smoother with the loss of mileage and the addition of weight.
The L4 has more add-on parts available.
The 6 with a stick would be interesting, but that seems to open up another can of cash requirements (tranny, bellhousing, new radiator (hose connections on opposite sides), mounts, plus the rebuild / recondition. Then include the reengineering needed to get it all to work.
I still think it would be good to recondition the original motor (seals, gaskets, cleaning, etc) so you can start driving the car, and while doing so, build up the motor of your choice.
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. A four speed or a T5 with some work. I know a guy with four T5 2.8s.
4. 2.8 front springs, the engine bay wiring harness, rad like you said, fan (and don't think about an electric one, it won't work). There may be a few other things. If you want to talk more, call me. Shoot me an email
pintopower@hotmail.com
I hate typing this much! I'll be out of town a few days but I can talk after the 7th of June.
please no headers, they don't work correctly on a 2.8, I've been there.
"please no headers, they don't work correctly on a 2.8, I've been there."
how was your setup(s)? Pipe size(s) ? X-overs or straight duals? what type exhuast system?
thanks
They were hooker super comps.
These were full length headers. Each pipe was 1 5/8 to 2.75" at the flange. Two cats and mufflers each side out the rear independently. The exhaust 2.75" all the way to flowmaster, single stage mufflers (which i got rid of also).
The car went from 130 at the rear wheels to 110. It lost all bottom end torque and the engine lost its ability to keep cool.
The heat of the headers fried a battery and caused a fire, WITH the heat shield in place.
It had incessant exhaust leaks as the flange would never seal regardless of steel to steel mate, header gasket, manifold gasket etc.
Since they were full length headers, the trans over heated and required a auxiliary cooler installed along with a heat wrap around the headers (top to bottom).
This caused two things, the heat wrap over heated the headers and caused them to crack and it finally fried the transmission. Then the trans couldn't be pulled since the headers were so tight against it that it would not fit between them.
Oh, lets NOT forget the fact that the oil filter is damn near impossible to change with the headers there.
They are not worth it on anything but a VERY built engine with a 5 speed not used as a car. A race car, ok. A normal car? No. A common misconception with headers is that they ALL make a car get more horsepower. Ok, lets start at the beginning. Headers never add horsepower. They free it up. Some exhaust systems are SO restrictive that the car just cannot breath. So, lets free up some horseys on a 2.8.
Leave the manifolds and run new header pipes to a true dual exhaust with high flow cats and good mufflers. That is all you need. You should free up 20 ponys (or more) there.
As for the headers, the size was the problem, they were to large. The larger the header, the better the high end performance BUT the 2.8 is a high rever to start with. This means the torque curve is higher so it takes low end to get it up to the max torque in the high end. With the huge headers, it lost the low end! How was the high end? I don't know, I was busy looking at the temp gauge at 220 and the white cloud of smoke from the trans spitting ATF on my cats.
In the 10 years my car has had no headers, I have been a happy man with a happy reliable Pinto and a perfect running C4.
My fingers hurt.
thanks pinto, Do you think you could have "over piped"? and under cammed for those diameters? my plan will be to use the ford headers, (they are tiny shorties) exit is under 2 inches at the main flange and run with 2 inch pipes no X-over to the tip, with only a small diameter thrush bottles inbetween.
pic of pipes
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/ru_ready_4_r_n_r/headers.jpg (http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n69/ru_ready_4_r_n_r/headers.jpg)
"A common misconception with headers is that they ALL make a car get more horsepower."
Also a common misconception is that many people think that BIG pipes = horse power... incorrect, 2.75 inch pipes are intended for motors running 300 horse and up with X-overs to stagger the flow.
From the sounds of what you ran there you actualy placed in pipes that took away the needed air velocity that runs through the pipe to control pressure. For large pipes to work as you stated you need a HIPO motor that produces gobs of power in the 275-350 range.
2 inch pipes are intended for motors running upto 150 horse. hope this might help some one who is wondering about pipe sizes.
cheers
If you are interested & live close enough to Youngstown, OH I have a running V6 & auto trans in my '77 Pinto that you can have for 350 bucks. You can have the radiator, engine mounts & the complete exhaust if you want it for that price.
78_starsky,
They probably were to large BUT there is really no option for the V6 hooker headers. What you have is all there is. Your idea is much better. Still, you have the heat issue. Plus, where did you get the headers from? The Pinto bay is SMALL and those hookers made some nasty turns to make it out of there.
hi pintopower, I was very, very lucky to get those headers. they are Ford factory originals that came out of a 1986 Aerostar van. back in the day Ford shoved the 2.8 into the Aerostar, and they (Ford) knew that they would be replaceing the 2.8 with the 3.0, so instead of casting and making new cast/metal exhaust manifolds, they just made a set of header pipes for the 2.8 in those vans. this was way cheaper for ford to do than to go full production on a motor that was going to be refitted in a year. ask every JY you have in your area if they have any Aerostars with/had a 2.8 and see if they still have the exhaust mans.
Now back to your question, I bought them from a guy that lives 20 miles from me. I met him through a different web site/forum I belong to that is all Ford Rangers. Just got extremely lucky that he happend to have an extra set of these in his basement and offered them to us for 75.00.
cheers
No one mentioned the brake booster are they the same v6 or 4 cylinder?