I may have to replace the Cross Member. This is a stock car and I don't know what year it is. Someone altered the shock mounts. My questions is are the cross members the same for all Pintos? Where do I position the motor mounts for a 2.3 motor. Will a Mustang II cross member work?
I believe 74-80 Pinto are the same as the Mustang II. 71-73 Pinto are different.
I believe all the crossmembers are welded in. On my 1973 it is for sure. So, it will be a task to remove and replace one.
By your question I'm assuming you have a 2.0 and thus likely an early car??? The 2.3 mounts unbolt from the newer cars, but for all practical purposes need to be welded in. There are no captured nuts in the frame rail needed to bolt them in. They go in a different location than the 2.0 mounts which will have to be cut out. There is no exact placement and I assume others have done what I did. You attach them to the 2.3 motor and lower them in. I did an 88 Turbo motor. Clearance between the steering rack and the hood are very close. You need to guest-imate on the "sag" when the mounts are fully compressed. Lots of apprehension is involved because once the mounts are welded in ... .
A final note, the 1973 steering racks are a one year item. They have a bulbous section that can have clearance issues with the oil pan.
Tom
Is there any way of determining what year this chassis is? There are 2 captured nuts located near the top of the frame rails 4 3/4" apart. The mounts that were in there were welded in a different location. These mounts have 4 bolt holes but do not match the 4 3/4 dimension.
What are the obvious differences in 71-73 frame rails? Is the rack/pinion mounting dimension different then a 71-73?
You said "this is a stock car and I don't know what year it is" ???
This is a Pinto correct? Post up the VIN off of the tag inside the windshield and we can determine what year it is.
Not sure what you meant about altered shock mounts.
Pictures would really help.
Mike
pictures
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto008.jpg)
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto007.jpg)
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto004.jpg)
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto003.jpg)
as you can see the frame and crossmember are pretty hacked up. I just gotstarted removing every thing. there is no no window no vin Stock Car for racing circle track
Oh! :embarrassed: A "stock car" not a "stock" car. LOL
'77 2.3l engine mount holes, passenger side:
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Pinto/Enginemountright.jpg)
'77 2.3l engine mount holes, driver side:
(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/4-BarrelMike/Pinto/Enginemountleft.jpg)
Rearmost lower mounting hole on each side is 6" from center of cross member.
Is that passenger side mount welded on (looks rather bad)?
I would think that you could weld a plate with a single hole to the top of the shock tower.
Hope this helps.
Mike
Quote from: Tom Gula on November 27, 2009, 12:47:20 AM
pictures
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto008.jpg)
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto007.jpg)
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto004.jpg)
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto003.jpg)
as you can see the frame and crossmember are pretty hacked up. I just gotstarted removing every thing. there is no no window no vin Stock Car for racing circle track
Tom ,
Judging by your Steering Rack, You have a 71-72 Rack and mounts. But whether the Crossmember is the original to the Unibody is a question maybe settled by a thorough comparison of the slight but significant spacing of the Frame sections that the Crossmember attach to.
Also, as a StockCar ( ala Mini stock) putting a early crossmember (71-72) on a 74 or later wouldn't have much value unless there is a Bump Steer advantage. But you would almost have to have it to use a 2.3 L engine in a '73 chassis.
The other item would be that the upper and lower control arms and Spindles are possibly a better choice for geometry for a 74& later plus the parts are more readily available.
The upper shock mount towers can be raised for the use of longer shock and springs and this has a Advantage for rough Dirt tracks. Yours appear to be modified also.
What is your objective with this car's usage? Just curious of course!
Pintosopher
The objective is to race Asphalt Oval. My son is driver. We raced a Mustang a few races this year The Pinto is our new project. I was hoping it was a 74 or later but judging from your photos it appears to be an early model. The photo I posted is the passenger side frame rail. The right hand bolt on your photo looks to be in the same place judging from the contour of the top of the frame rail
The next photo is the rack mounting holes. Do you have the dimension for early models and late models.
Do you know if a Mustang II cross member will fit?
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto2001.jpg)
(http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg341/TomGula/pinto2002.jpg)
I have no direct knowledge, but I'd judge that the MII is close enough that you'd be capable of any fabrication necessary.
Will you be able to use the earlier lower a-arms with the later crossmember? Dunno.
Mike
Tom,
I'll also confirm your car is either a '71 or a '72 based on the pictures. The odd rack for the '73 has an equally odd mount that is not evident on your car.
Tom
Whew! What a mess. The '74 up is a much better choice, bigger frame rails, suspension is more heavy-duty and far more available than the earlier cars.
Not sure what the rules are but if you are allowed to use weight jacks, the fox body mustang is far superior to the Pinto.
If it were me and I was dead-set on using the car you have, I would swap the entire sub frame from a later model car.
This class does not allow jacking bolts or castor camber adjusting plates on the Mustang. No modificactions to the 4 link arms. We had a Mustang this year. I think the Pinto will be a better handling car for stock class on asphalt short track.
Quote from: Wittsend on November 28, 2009, 12:03:01 AM
Tom,
I'll also confirm your car is either a '71 or a '72 based on the pictures. The odd rack for the '73 has an equally odd mount that is not evident on your car.
Thanks Tom
We will make the cross member work. Do you think the A-arms and spindles will work? Will I need another rack? This is a race car left turns.
Tom,
Being a '73 car owner only I can't answer your question. Hopefully there is an old/newer combination owner out there.
Tom
It looks like it has 2.3 mounts in it already. The ones on it look just like the ones i have in all my cars. Of course, mine all have 2.3s so I cant really compare them to the 1.6 and 2.0 mounts, but im sure they'd probably look significantly different and these look the same. Plus if it had the original mounts in it, they'd be bolted on not welded. The 2.3 wasn't available until 74 and i too would have to say that car is a 71 or 72.
The engine mounts are for a 2.3 That was the last engine in the car I know for sure. The cross member 71-72 is original amd was spotwelded in place. I finished removing it yesterday and have bought one out of a Mustand II. The rules give the location for a factory stock engine location. Stock Location measured from back of block (where bell housing bolts up) to center line of rear axle tubes.
Mustang 89 ? ? Pinto 88 ? ?
The Standard Catalog of American Cars, 1946-1975 shows the '75 Pinto with a wheelbase of 94.4" and the '75 Mustang II 96.2".
The book is full of errors, so...
Mike