How.
Thought i'd already registered here a long time ago but i guess not. Took a while to register (the 'are you human?' question is obviously a trick one, i know that now). Anyways, i am a normal hot rod punk, not weird like you guys. Well, i wasn't anyways, until some crackhead did this 7000rpm burnout past me in a 351 Pinto when i was busy checking out a real car back in high school. Something important inside my head broke and i've ever been the same since, so i've always wanted a V8 Pinto. No... 'NEEDED' a V8 pinto might be more accurate. So i get through a good 20 years ov messin with cars without incident or this head injury coming back to haunt me, mostly 70-74 Mopars and early on a predilection for 70 Buick Skylarks with 455's (but we try and forget about that). I've had some nice ones and own a couple still (70 Challenger, 72 Charger, 68 Cadillac, among others). But then one day i drive past this lil' brown thing for sale and i couldn't help but turn around. Next thing you know i own this rusty 76 'MPG' Pinto, 2.3, 4spd, 8", trunk, nothin' else. For $300 and some insurance BS i was driving around with a retarded smile on my face for months. The fact that i'd not had a stick car for a few years might've had something to do with it however. Whatever... this lil' firecracker was fun as hell.
So anyways, i've tried for a couple years now to get someone to install a 89-up injected 5.0L 5spd drivetrain in front ov the 8" for free, but so far no takers. So its still a rather sad 88HP (or less by now), and easily the slowest car i've ever driven. That had a lot to do with why it came off the road. I ended up buying a 96GT with a 5spd and that satisfied my need to shift my own gears. That car is now my girlfriend's and i need a car to drive. I also need to make a 50 mile (50 mi one way) commute thrice a week now, so i started looking for a lil' shitbox to drive. Then i got to thinking... 'i HAVE a lil shitbox!' So now i'm back to driving this thing. I love this car, its still fun. I've got 17"'s and Z-rated tires on it (245's, 275's), its been stripped down beyond even the meager 'MPG' trim and i'm taking the bumpers and brackets off and driving without until i can source a 71-3 front clip and rear bumper. Apparently that will be quite the weight reduction.
BUT... the problem remains... this thing has GOT GOT GOT to get faster. The 5.0L conversion aint happening soon, nor would it solve my mileage problem. So now i've got this cracked little idea... i'm wondering just how fast i can make the 2.3, with a T5 and some serious gear in the rear. There is a lot to be done to a stock 2.3 by the sounds ov it, without hurting mileage. In fact, it seems to me that almost everything you can do to it will improve mileage, as long as the cam remains stockish (a stock roller would be better yet i figure) and the exhaust doesn't get too big. I can get this rig down under 2000lbs if i try, so i'm thinking a sub-2000lb hot-rodded 2.3 with a work ov art exhaust (i do exhaust) and a T5, with say 4.10 gears a posi, 295 or wider tires in the back and a lightened drivetrain might get me upwards ov 40mpg...??.? I bet that would be fairly fast too...
Which brings me out into the open here. There are things i need to know. This is all very new territory for me, i said i'll NEVER drive a 4 cyl car, and here i am wanting to build one and drive the hell out ov it. I figure it cant get cooler than a badass lookin' Pinto with big meats and rwd to keep the right end smokin'.
So anyways, i type a lot, i say anyways a lot and i cant spell 'ov'. Go easy on me...
Oh yeah, forgot to ask the question...
Anyone have any idea how fast a 2000lb Pinto with say 130-150HP, a T5, 8" with 3.73 or 4.10 gears and big tires would be?
Could i expect more than 40mpg highway when i'm not in 'shinerunner' mode?
I'm not the least bit interested in a turbo for this car, i'd go the 5.0L route first. Its all about the N/A with me....
Depending on the cash flow, I have heard 150-200hp out of the 2.3.
I myself just ruined my 2.3 and have a 302?T5 going back in. That is after I do the body with a ground-up restomod. FYI the 74-80 Pintos are easy to V8.
If you stay with the 2.3, go to a manifold that will accept the Holley 2 BBL or 4 BBL. Get a good cam, more duration over stack, and a header running about a 2 1/2" exhaust. One of the best sourses for parts is Speedway Motors.
From talking to theses Pinto nuts on here I have found, a 2.3 really powers up if it can breathe in and out. Last thing, stay away from 4.00 gears if you want MPG. Go with a 3.55.
Hope this helps!!
Hey there, Hope i can help here.
I have a 71 pinto sedan that i drove for near 18 years and even with a light foot the 2000lb runner was lucky to get 28mpg on a long run. Mileage only went down when i put a cam and exhaust and 4brl on it looking for that V8 punch. Never really got it. It still had a top speed of about 85 90 and was just never what i wanted. NA that is. thought of going turbo but im just a Supercharger or Na guy. Turbos arent just much to look at. The best performers really but i just cant "feel it".
So to answer your questions there are a bunch of guys that have Hot Rodded the 2.3 N/A but reliablity and economy go away. Big cams and big induction are the only way. Then you lose drivability. For example the midget engines that are sold by Esslinger Engineering make 230 to near 300 HP. However they cost near $14000 and have zero drivability for the street. ( im generalizing but you get the picture)http://www.esslingeracing.com/home.htm (http://www.esslingeracing.com/home.htm)
The only way your ever going to keep even near 30mpg and 220 HP is to get the tried and true (but a hell of a lot of work) 2.3 Turbo T-bird setup.
The other problems with the idea of 40 mpg is that even in the best economy tune your lucky to get 30mpg light footed. Then you want to add 295 wide tires and the fact that the lightest pinto ever made was the 71 sedan @ 2000lbs. All those cospire against you with current stock pinto style tech
What ive thought of before i did my current hotrod setup is to get the focus ztec engine in there. A bellhousing to convert to a rwd T5 5 speed is availble but expensive. My 2003 focus under a light foot will net you 38mpg and is still a very peppy 4banger. Plus once you get all the swap bugs out, the engine is dead reliable. Remember the SVT Focus used the 2.0 ztec and they pulled 175hp N/A out of it. Ive talked to a guy that had a Hot Rod Mustang 5.0 and he told me that the SVT Focus was suprising.
I decided against it cause 6 years ago no one talked about it, and i didnt have the ability to make a bellhousing for the conversion to RWD. Plus i just dont have the passion for a 4 banger that some do. Give me a V8 with that rumble and choppy idle!!
Concerning the front end sheetmetal i dont think you can fit the 71-73 stuff on it without changing your front radiator support as the later models push out farther into the "grill area". Im not sure. (Someone hopfully that did it will chime in here.) But haveing said that ON ebay there is a guy selling both fenders, bumpers,hood .. basicly a front clip off of his 73 wagon (and a whole lot more)http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&item=200357760605 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&item=200357760605) I was thinking that i could use the drivers side fender but im not so sure now. Biggest problem with him is he wont ship anything. So that pretty much leaves it up to you to go get it. However im about 85miles from him and could go get it and ship it but it would have to be worth it to me as thats a lot of work to box up and pallet that much sheet metal.
Well i hope i havent killed your passion that you seem to have for your "shitbox" LOL!
Hope to hear from you again on what your going to do with your car!
Hey thanks guys. But i should clarify a few things.
I love V8's. No... i'm absolutely obsessed with V8's. I'd buy a Viper and swap a Ford 5.4 mod in there if i had the money. I think everything should have a V8. I'm generally a Mopar guy, i've always had Mopars. I like Caddy's too. But there is just something about the SOUND ov a modern Ford V8 (5.0L's, mods)... i wanna hear that music in EVERYTHING. Thats why i originally bought this liability.
But what i NEED right now is a car that gets really stupid gas mileage. But i also have to be realistic... this car is too slow to be driven on public roads. It runs fine, nothing mechanically wrong with it. But on the big highway hills this thing literally will not get out ov second gear. 22mph. Powershift third and floor it and i lose speed at an alarming rate. 88HP, 2400lbs and highways gears are NOT a good combo. I dont need to beat C5 vettes, i just need to get outta my own way.
Here's my plan and thinking:
I'm tossing the bumpers and brackets. They're rusty as hell and (i read somewhere?) that they weigh about 140lbs the pair. I will drive without bumpers till i get a 71-73 set-up on there. There is another ratty 76 around here with 71 bumpers and clip, so i know its possible.
Also gonna lighten this thing up further. I am the celebrated grand-master ov weight-reduction, so this is a no-brainer. So far from what i've seen there aint much to remove on these cars... the interior panels are so light you might as well leave 'em in. I've got a few tricks up my sleeve...
The 2.3 as installed sounds like a waste ov time. Mine is in good shape, so no rebuild in sight. But i might pop the head off when i do the header, do a quick port and polish (i port heads as well)... just a basic clean up, nothing drastic. If there is a better head for porting that will be more efficient i'll grab one ov those and replace mine. It will be planed .060" as is the norm it seems. Not building a race engine here, just 'cleaning up' what the factory threw together.
I'm leaving the stock system on till i go through emissions, then its an aftermarket header (customized collector if need be), 2 1/4" mandrel bend stainless exhaust with no cat and a Borla, 2" tailpipe to keep the neighbors awake.
Gonna install some kind ov ram-air or cold-air induction. Sounds like the intake is a big restriction, so i'll do some research on that. If there is a 2.3 version ov a modern hot street intake (not a race one), say like a Performer RPM i'll get one ov those too. I DONT want a big carb. That will nullify the whole plan. If i need a BETTER one than i have, i'll get that, but not too big. 2bbl maybe?
According to the Mustang (fox body) 2.3 guys, going to the roller cam from the Mustangs/Rangers is worth about 20-25hp. Maybe this only works in the injected engines? People here dont seem to agree. Regardless, i cant see the roller cam being less efficient than the one i have. The KEY to improving the mpg is not putting the big cam in there. So i wont, but a roller cam is ALWAYS gonna be more efficient. Despite the smaller specs, i'd be surprised if it didn't make the car go considerably faster.
Hotter ignition possibly?
Might go so far as putting full synthetic fluid in everything (engine, trans and rear). That was worth enough in the 96GT to actually feel, and cant cost nearly as much in this tiny drivetrain.
My car has NO power stuff at all. Manual steering and brakes, no AC, so nothing to delete there.
The big deal is gonna be a T5. As far as i've read, i have 2.79 gears (? ? ?) in the 8" right now. So my plan is to get a 4cyl T5 (steeper 1st, .79 5th) and then install a rear gear that will match my highway gears and 1:1 in 5th. So a 2.79 and 4spd will equal a 3.55 and 5spd? Essentially the same final drive on the highway as i have now. I'll likely end up with 3.7's or even 4.10's because ov the taller (26") tires out back. I'd get a V8 T5 for an even longer OD gear, but i doubt the 2.3 would pull it...
Down the road i'll be looking into used aluminum driveshafts. Aerostars have 'em, maybe something can be cheaply modified? Posi for the rear if it doesn't already have one.
Anyways... all this goes towards building a far more EFFICIENT car. The power increases come by default (gotta love that). According to the average source this should be worth 130-150HP N/A, and with a (if not sub, then near) 2000lb Pinto with gears and a good driver, should be fast enough to satisfy in a commuter car...
What'ya think...??
Good plan.
I guess i read that you were wanting a 300 hp 2.3. aint gonna happen without a turbo. So having said that i drive a 97 ranger everyday for commuter. I can pull down 24 Average mpg if i take it easy and near 30 on a long freeway drive. Its just a 125hp 2.3 stock with a 5speed and a 3.73 rear with 225 70 14s. Now its heavier by near 800lbs and a brick aerodynamicly and it still cruises at 80 without a problem. So id be real interested in finding out how a straight swap with all the computers and emission stuff would do in a lighter, slippier package.
I bet you could find a complete engine for near 500-800 complete out of a wrecked ranger. Then put a t5 behind it and have fun.
The biggest portion of the performance is in the computer and fuel injection. The roller cam is good but a very mild one in terms of performance. Its a torquer not a high rpm deal. Heck i think my truck runs out of steam near 5000 rpm. so just swapping in the cam isnt going to do much for you. I think 25 hp is dreaming. More like 10 would be realistic.
However, you could try the cam for very cheap. Ive seen "complete" setups on ebay going for about $150. Then get a NOS carburator replacement for your emission requirements and see if that helps. Id stay away from "porting out" the head and just do a valve job and a good clean up on the bowls etc. Polish the chambers and that will help with detonation when you advance the timing, which will also help performance.
Also get a Good electric fan setup and ditch the mechanical fan. that will also help get you a few more Hp and help the gas mileage
The cold air deal is always a sure bet. And get a K&N filter for your stock housing. K&N has on there website has a crossover referance.
Quote from: 71hotrodpinto on July 04, 2009, 12:26:40 PM
Good plan.
I guess i read that you were wanting a 300 hp 2.3. aint gonna happen without a turbo. So having said that i drive a 97 ranger everyday for commuter. I can pull down 24 Average mpg if i take it easy and near 30 on a long freeway drive. Its just a 125hp 2.3 stock with a 5speed and a 3.73 rear with 225 70 14s. Now its heavier by near 800lbs and a brick aerodynamicly and it still cruises at 80 without a problem. So id be real interested in finding out how a straight swap with all the computers and emission stuff would do in a lighter, slippier package.
Nah, if i wanted 200+ HP i'd V8 it, or just buy a cheap 5.0L notch for now. 300HP is gonna burn gas no matter what size the engine is... so might as well be a (MUCH) better sounding V8. The Ranger powertrain sounds close to what i want. Really shouldn't take much to move this Pinto. I'd love to do the injection an' all that, but its beyond me and my current patience level. Gonna have to be carbed, so i'll have to research and find the right one for my needs.
QuoteI bet you could find a complete engine for near 500-800 complete out of a wrecked ranger. Then put a t5 behind it and have fun.
The biggest portion of the performance is in the computer and fuel injection. The roller cam is good but a very mild one in terms of performance. Its a torquer not a high rpm deal. Heck i think my truck runs out of steam near 5000 rpm. so just swapping in the cam isnt going to do much for you. I think 25 hp is dreaming. More like 10 would be realistic.
I'd be happy with 10HP and added efficiency for what i'll pay.
See heres the beauty ov playing with a 2.3 4 banger. This is ALL throwaway stuff here. Everyone wants a 5.0L, either engine or Mustang. There are nice 2.3 stangs for sale here for well under $500. Honestly, aside from maybe a new header and a few odd things, i dont plan on paying for any ov this stuff. I've even been offered free T5's before when the 5.0L guys get sick ov breaking them. I'd never pay for 2.3 stuff... theres no need. In fact, this stuff is so ubiquitous i'm starting to wonder how cheaply i could build a new engine. I bet i could have a new 2.3 with a long rod and forged piston deal, with quench for well under $1000. Hmmm...
QuoteHowever, you could try the cam for very cheap. Ive seen "complete" setups on ebay going for about $150. Then get a NOS carburator replacement for your emission requirements and see if that helps. Id stay away from "porting out" the head and just do a valve job and a good clean up on the bowls etc. Polish the chambers and that will help with detonation when you advance the timing, which will also help performance.
Also get a Good electric fan setup and ditch the mechanical fan. that will also help get you a few more Hp and help the gas mileage
The cold air deal is always a sure bet. And get a K&N filter for your stock housing. K&N has on there website has a crossover referance.
Its all going on a list and the fun will be trying to pay nothing for the lot. I know where there are at least two wrecked/abandoned 2.3 stangs, and a Ranger, so thats a lotta free stuff already. Maybe i can find a used aftermarket header if i look hard enough...