Tried to drive Wee Beastie from the farm down to Omaha. Made it as far as Pisgah before the thing started acting up and I turned around and headed back. It runs rough, loads down, surges, and blows a lot of black smoke mostly at idle. GRRR! >:( My best guesses are a plugged fuel filter (but wouldn't it be starved instead of running rich?), a loose vacuum hose, a dirty or bad injector, or a bad oxygen sensor (which would be annoying since it has a new one and they aren't cheap), or something that I have to pull a code for. Any ideas? It has an '85 Merkur 2.3 turbo in it.
DGH
Well Doug, welcome to the club. I got my Turbo Pinto running back in December. Here it is May and I'm still struggling to get it to run right.
My problem is always the same. Starts, idles and runs, but there is a intermittent miss at idle. There is a double surge while accelerating. It will accelerate, fall flat, surge again, fall flat and by then it is time to shift. At times if the car is already at speed (about 35 MPH) and I gradually apply the throttle it will accelerate as it should. This leads me to believe the problem isn't he fuel system. It is not that it won't reach high RPM's it is getting it there that is the problem.
That said, there is a new fuel filter, the plugs are new, the wire ohmed out, the distributor cap checked and cleaned of carbon, the distributor was swapped and that replaced the TFI and the PIP. The O2 sensor was swapped as well as the TPS (and adjusted). I opened the VAM and checked it. While the traces looked good I repositioned the wiper downward (not right or left) to have it wipe on a clean resistive pad.
While all these parts are used, the EXACT problem remains. I've tried about 4 different TFI's and even relocated it off the distributor.
I get both 41 (lean) and 42 (rich) codes as the only pertinent ones. I'll say this, if I immediately start the (cold) car and drive it it seems pretty good. But even 45 seconds into driving it the miss and surge starts. Frustrating isn't it. Anyway, I just want you to know you are not the only one.
I guess I've "snuck under the radar" at NATO. They are not too keen on helping with swaps, but they have offered a lot of advice. Unfortunately nothing has helped.
All the best, I hope you get it sorted out.
Tom
NATO? ???
North Atlantic Treaty Organization? ???
Quote from: dholvrsn on May 07, 2009, 02:02:40 PM
NATO? ???
North Atlantic Treaty Organization? ???
Close!
North American Turbocoupe Organization: http://www.turbotbird.com/ (http://www.turbotbird.com/)
Lots of good turbo tech.
Mike
The problems you guys are having is what still makes me a little gun shy of doing a turbo swap in my car. That stinking OBD1 can be a bear! :P OBDII has spoiled me! Hook up the laptop and pull up the PIDs you want to see and watch them in real time. :amazed:
I was just wondering if there are any VOM or DMM tests that I could do on the Oxygen Sensor or Manifold Temperature Sensor that would determine if they're any good?
There are, in fact that is how you had to diag OBD1. We have a 60 pin break out box that hooks between the PCM and the harness and you make measurements from pin to pin at the BOB. The problem is that pin 1 (and 2 and 3 and so on) at the BOB is not pin 1 (2,3...) at the PCM. So without the BOB you have to figure out what circuit they are wanting you to test and find that pin at the PCM. Confused yet? :D In other words the pin point test will say "hook up BOB & test resistance value (or voltage signal or whatever) for sensor (XXX) at pin 14 and 37. Reading should be between ___ and ___." That way you test the entire circuit and the sensor. Depending on what answer you get, that directs you to the next PPT. In order to test directly from the PCM you have to match circuits which can be done, it just involves more work! If you let me know what you want to test, I can go up in the attic at work at try to find the old PCED's for the year engine you have and try to help out.
I'm back up at the Farm working on the Pinto again. The regulator hose smells like gas. Will get another regulator tomorrow when the stores are open.
Also got 26 & 26 codes followed by 11 & 11 codes, which I think mean the VAM is out of whack but everything else is OK. I bounced this off a real mechanic and he thinks that it's a side effect of the engine running way too rich for the VAM to compensate.
To Wittsend, do you have a good ground from the coil to the body and from the engine to the body? Also is your temp sensor in the intake OK?
Replacing the regulator didn't fix it. Still runs rough and blows black smoke. Even even gives the same 26,26,11,11 error. What now? I'm thinking to look at either a leaky injector or the oxygen sensor next. Unless somebody here with real Ford turbo EFI experience can come up with a better insight.
Another update. I had a mechanic friend come out tonight and look at the car. The all the plugs and oxygen sensor were all black and wet with soot. He believes that at least one of the fuel injectors is stuck wide open. The manifold and rail is coming apart tomorrow. Any advice on cleaning out gummy old injectors?
the only thing i can tell you is to buy the cleaner in the can meant to clean that type of application and then soak it a little bit, then put some pressure through it once its soaked to push out what ever might be in it. This is what i did on my mother in laws 87 Somerset. two injectors were not firing or were not pulsing like they are supposed to so i took them all out, cleaned them up and got new o-ring kits for them.
Code 26 is set when the VAM input to the PCM is out of range at idle. The signal circuit is ok because it did not set 56 (signal high) or 66 (signal low). There are 3 basic things that can generate this code. VAM, PCM, or air or vacuum leaks.
Make sure there are no air leaks between VAM and the throttle body.
Check very carefully for any vacuum leaks.
Make sure the PCV, canister purge (if you have one) and even the valve cover oil cap and dipstick tube are sealed.
There are 4 wires to the VAM, the bottom terminal in the connector is blank. lets call that one #1.
#2 is signal return to the PCM.
#3 is voltage reference (5V).
#4 is VAM signal to PCM.
#5 is VAM air temp.
With the engine off, key on, #4 should be 0.15-0.50V. At idle it's 1.5-1.7V.
If you get this code with the key on, engine off, most likely the VAM is at fault. Make sure there is nothing interfering with the vane movement.
Take a pencil and stick it through the VAM to hold the vane open. Read voltage between 2 & 4 and 2 & 5. Should be 2.8-3.7V. If so the VAM is ok and most likely you have an air or vacuum leak.
Good luck, hope this helps! :)
Will measure voltages or even swap VAMs tomorrow morning.
So can a wacky VAM *really* make it run this ungodly rich?
I was thinking through last night that 71pintoracer's idea made more sense because it was something that globally effected all four injectors and the O2 sensor.
I was also starting to toy with the idea of making some sort of mini-manifold that would hold a Holley 5200 or 350, or even a Weber or Solex or Mikuni, and connect up with the turbo inlet, and then how to bypass the EFI stuff afterwards.
Anyway, it turns out that the VAM was gunky and the barn door vanes were hung up all the way open. Now, there's a problem that's not documented in the manual! I killed off a can of carburetor cleaner and used a can of brake cleaner afterwards to get the VAM about 80% as clean as I really wanted to. Those vanes swing much clearly and the Pinto runs like it supposed to now! I even pulled a perfect 11,11 & 11,11 code.
Also see my post asking about VAM cleaning.
I'm going to attempt this trip again as soon as I eat breakfast. Wish me luck! ;)