its dads 73 wagon and it (i was told) a power disc brake car. its not power assist anymore. the brakes work but you have to really stand on the pedal to stop it. its been this way since we got it running. if we needed to stop in a hurry it aint gonna happen. dad talked to a couple places and they said to install an adjustable proportioning valve. he got one but its not installed yet. i want to hear if theres another issue or if this is the correct way to fix this issue. also, does the adjustable valve just go on one side of the master cylinder? it only has an in and out then the knob. does it go to the front brakes or the rear? any suggestions? thanks steve.
I'm not meaning to insult your intelligence, but is the power booster vacuum connection hooked up? Just a thought & figure I would throw it out there since sometimes the simplest things are missed.
booster is gone and a manual mastercylinder installed
You know what? I misunderstood what you meant by "it's not power assist anymore". I had a blonde moment..
Anyways, you shouldn't need an adjustable proportioning valve. I have heard that the brake pedal is different from manual to power brakes. I'm not sure if this is true. If that is the case that could be part of your problem if you didn't change the brake pedal. Just throwing that out there.
One more question.. Did it ever have power brakes when you owned it or always manual? Just trying to get as much info.
the booster was gone when we got the body. weve had it hooked up this way since weve had it. i wasnt there when dad got the mc so would it be possible he got and installed the wrong master cylinder?
It is very possible. I don't know what the difference is but know there is a difference between a power & manual master cylinder. Like I mentioned, it could be the brake pedal itself still is a pedal for a power brake setup. Since I have heard there are differences in the two that might be causing a problem
That is part of the problem id say. There are 4 different brake pedals for pintos. two for manual transmission cars and two for automatic transmission cars. One of each is for manual brakes and the other is for power brakes. A new booster is only about $100. I think I would get a new brake booster and put it back to power brakes rather than hunting down a pedal and changing it out. Could also be a frozen caliper or wheel cylinder or, yes the stuck proportioning valve.
I have brake booster for $30.00. Master cyl. for $15.00. Brake pedal for $20.00 + ship. Fred :)
thanks everyone for the replies and fred for the parts offering. ill talk to dad today and see wht he wants to do and get back here. thanks steve.
talked to dad and he had already cut and rewelded the mount for the mc rod to a lower spot to correctly line it up. so im down to thinking its possibly a bad caliper. although im not ruling out a bad prop valve.
That plate that the brake booster and stuff mounts to is removeable. It may not look like it but it is. Im pretty sure you're gonna need to change the brake pedal or go back to power brakes but it is never a bad idea to check all the brakes anyways. If a caliper or wheel cylinder is bad the car should pull hard to one side when the brakes are applied. Keyword, should.
Could it be plugged lines on his car as well??
I ask this partially because my car pulls to the right when I apply the brakes. I am bettering that the caliper is bad, but it wasn't replaced very long ago. I have been thinking of the proportioning valve as well.
Quote from: dave1987 on April 12, 2009, 09:49:49 PM
Could it be plugged lines on his car as well??
I ask this partially because my car pulls to the right when I apply the brakes. I am bettering that the caliper is bad, but it wasn't replaced very long ago. I have been thinking of the proportioning valve as well.
Dave, since the calipers are floating calipers, the slide pins may be dirty and need a cleaning/lube. I have had this happen before. You may check that before you go thru the rebuild or possible exchange.
I have seen slide pins on my 07 Saturn, however I don't recall ever seeing them on the Pinto brakes. I am using reman cardone calipers though:
(http://shop.oreillyauto.com/product_images/img/a1c/v2/184069-lef.jpg)
Rear brakes could also be adjusted wrong. One tighter than the other can cause pulling.
i did notice one thing when i was up there a few weeks ago. we bled the rear brakes and while bleeding them the pedal would go all the way to the floor like its supposed to. and when you lock the bleeder the pedal only moves maybe an inch to an inch and a half. thats all the pedal its ever had.
Umm, I hate to tell you this but the pedal should not go all the way to the floor. If the pedal does go all the way to the floor that generally points to a problem. The reason the pedal went all the way to the floor with the bleeder open is because the fluid & air was being forced out, leaving no resistance on the pedal.
On the Pintos with manual brakes I have noticed that the pedal will only go down about 2 inches and there is a noticable difference in stopping. That's not to say there is anything wrong, just that it feels different compared to power brakes. To be honest it sounds like there is no problem. I would check your rear brakes like pintoguy96 recommends, and adjust them as needed. You might just want to go ahead and convert it back to power brakes if you don't like how it feels. From what you just described I don't believe you have any problem, just that you are not used to it.
Gotta face the fact.. It is called power assist for a reason. Without it you have to do all the work of the booster.
r4, im fully aware of what happens when you crack the bleeder open. what i felt when we did that is what i was expecting. i also know what brakes feel like between power and manual. this is not right and isnt even close to safe in its current condition. also this is my 4th pinto ive owned. its the only one thats had this issue. back brakes are new and adjusted properly. no amount of force on the pedal can make any of the brakes lock up while driving. and just for reference im not a certified mechanic only because i didnt take the test. did go through the school but chose avionics over cars. like to keep the cars to a hobby. all 108 ive had so far. so im not car stupid. just stumped. and its hard to get this fixed from 600 miles away with my dad being 66 years old. he has a hard time turning wrenches anymore...
Steve avionics is way cleaner job anyway. Fred :)