Which one of yall wrote a topic of what is needed for the V8 installation in a Pinto. I know a little but surely one of yall did a documentry. :lol:
I would be using a 1978 Hatchback.
CB
PS I got that manual from ebay and wasn't too impressed about all the cutting and welding and parts recommendations.
Plus the thing isn't too accurate.
You said a mouth full. I shouldn't have wasted my money. :read: :nocool:
i have the mustang ii c4 bell, torque converter, flexplate and i think i have the exhaust manifolds too if your interested.
the job wasnt too bad.
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,9242.0.html
bob
71pintoracer has a very good post called let the fun begin lots of pics thats what i have been using
Turbo74pinto, I will keep you in mind, but I would really like a manual. It's good to have a choice.
smallfryefarm, Thanks for directions to the tread.
I was looking at headers in the Summit site and found a set for the 74-80 pinto swap. Lo and behold, you can download the instuctions for the swap. It was very detailed. I might see if Scott would like to load it on the site for all of us to see and use. The headers are a little pricy but they're made by Hooker.
carolina boy, before you go the v8 route you need to come to one of our turbo meets and see what 140ci can do while still pullin down 30 mpg. you will be more than a little impressed. i promise. we southern boys and gals have 2 meets a year. we havent had our spring meet yet. even a stock 2.3 turbo will piss off most of the average v8 stuff around. and its a fairly easy swap in a pinto.
Pinturbo75, Let me know the dates of your meets and I'll make some plans. I haven't made me mind up yet, laddy!! Is there BBQ at the meets?
we always have good food. bbq is usually in there somewhere. ill try to keep you informed of the dates when we figure them out. we had 58 people show up at the spring meet last year. plenty of nice cars and cool folks. we have 4 turbo pintos in the southeast group and 2 of those are 400 plus to the wheels. im not quite there yet. im trying to get everything tuned properly on my old engine and then the new one will go in. im looking for a minimum of 450 to the wheels and close to 30 mpg cruising at around 70. the car is alot of fun and the looks you get when you tell them its only a 4banger are priceless.....
I would say that before you go the V8 route you owe it to yourself to take a ride in turbo charged Pinto. I have had that privilge and it was not the fastest car there. But what i will tell you is a V8 car accelerates while a turbo Pinto putting out the horses is just suddenly someplace else. It doesn't feel like a V8 it is just suddenly gone. Very, very quick.
Just tell me if I'm right.
Turbo: big horse, little engine, special engine work, major wiring, computer control, hot revolving parts, broken parts expensive and rare, very close tolerances, labor intense. Good handling, gas mileage ok, decent sound.
302 V8: easy find, shoehorn needed, easy wiring (if you stay with carb), power, squirrelly handling, poor gas mileage, loud, repairs and parts more plentiful, chassis upgrades needed.
Either one: pocket book bumper, will turn heads, will eat ricers anytime, unexpected at shows.
I can't put either one down or hold one above the other. There is always a third option, 3.8 Thunderchicken supercharged.
Carolina Boy, you are exactly right! I was thinking of posting the same thoughts. I considered the turbo swap (and still am) but I could not find a doner car. I had so much fun blowing V8 Mustangs and camaros in the weeds with my nitrous injected 2.0!
I really think for the turbo swap you are far ahead of the game to have the entire doner car rather than trying to piece everything together. That means you have the expense of buying the whole car, and then most likely having to freshen the engine. (they tend to blow head gaskets) I say I couldn't find a doner, I did find two, one had a blown head gasket for $3500.00 but the rest of the car was in nice shape so it would really have been a waste to scrap the car, the other car was not as nice but the engine smoked and it didn't run right when the turbo kicked in. 3K for that one!
On the other hand, 302's are everywhere and pretty cheap. I picked up a running engine from a wrecked '89 Mustang that had the H.O. with a roller cam and forged pistons (so I can use my nitrous) for 100 bucks.
Either swap is going to require a decent amount of work and fabrication, but IMHO I think the V8 swap is easier. My car is no corner carver for sure but as far as normal(?)driving it handles very well.
I am still kinda on the lookout for a turbo doner, if the right one pops up then I can buy it and take my time with rebuilding the engine, planning the swap ect. In the meantime I'm having a blast with the V8! It's alot of fun to be cruising along in second gear and nail it and have the rear of the car get sideways!! ;D ;D ;D
youre both pretty far off base from what ive encountered. my pinto was on the road with a turbo setup for less than 500 including the pinto. i did get a whole car for the job but paid 200 for it. you just need to look if youre serious and youll find what you need. carolina boy, where in nc are you? if youre near charolotte there are a few picknpulls that regularly have turbo stuff available and down here i know of a few sitting and could be had for decent prices. i could try to get the online sites for the pullaparts up there if needed. let me know. steve
I couldn't have said it any better. Both swaps have their good and bad points.
Now another thing I heard was that 76-80 pintos are easier to put a 302 in. There is something about the frame mounts. You used engine plates, right?
There has to be a Pintoer on here that has put a 302 in a 78.
Steve, There use to be a place called Richards out on 49 but he closed to the public then sold out. I heard everything was crushed. I only know of that one and maybe two more yards that had parts I would need. I myself live in South Hillsborough between I-40 and I-85 just after they split. The yards around here don't let you out in the yard anymore due to thieves hiding parts in tool boxes.
I may just keep what I got, I just ain't made my mine up yet. Hmm....zoom, zoom or Varoom???
JATO anyone???
The '74 and up are easier due to the larger engine bay and trans tunnel. Years and years ago my brother and I did a swap with a kit made by Hooker. It was a bolt-in deal. The kit is not available anymore but it was just engine and trans mounts and instructions similar to the ones you saw on the Summit site. We even used the stock cast iron manifolds. Your '78 is a prime candidate for a V8 swap. Plus I read on your other thread that a V8 Mustang is in the offerings.
Pinturbo75 are you telling me you bought a Pinto and a turbo doner and had it up and running for 500 bucks? What a steal! Gives me hope for future endeavors!! ;D
actually i did better than that. i bought 2 pintos (both sedans, a 73 and 75) for 95 bucks. paid 200 for a 85.5 tbird turbo that ran. no title on the bird so it was a parts car. used the engine rearend, and tranny for my pinto, the wiring harness and ecu went on my dads pinto. sold the rest of the bird and got half my money back. sold the 73 pinto and got all my money back from that plus a few bucks for tracking down the title for it. every thing else i go junkyarding and do the ebay deal to finance my car fund or use the barter system. got my megasquirt for a used 780 holley and 50 bucks. im a cheap bastard but i need to be when it comes to toys.
i agree with pinturbo75. they are easier to find than you think. i payed 400 for my 88 turbo coupe doner with 110k on it. i personally dont see a point to get an engine and just drop it in. rings, bearings, crank grind (if needed) and gaskets are like 300-350. thats some good sound insurance for me. id do the same for a v8 too. anyhow, all i needed out of the turbo coupe was the motor, tranny, harness and eec. by the time i parted and scrapped the car, i got paid $200 for the drive line and got a pair of power buckets for our 34 dodge!
the turbo parts also arent hard to find. the only thing that could be a pain to get is another turbo head that isnt cracked. but even those are readily available. keep in mind that the rods in my turbo motor are stamped "D4" so they are the same rods that have been used in 2.3s since 1974.
i also felt that the turbo swap was easier than the v8. with my swap, i had everything out of a mustang ii and i still had to cut the firewall for clearance for the upper bell bolts. most people cut the radiator support and move the radiator forward. you can also move the engine back and cut more of the firewall. i think that involves modifying the oil pan for rack clearance. no cast manifolds work other than the mustang ii that i know of. the hooker headers i had were not cheap at 350 or 375 at the time. my motor mounts had to be moved and modified. but i started with a v6 car, it may be different with a 4 banger. also at the time, only one side motor mount was available aftermarket. although that may have changed by now.
with the turbo, there were no underhood mods that i did. even with a 3.5 inch exhaust. if you want your factory heater, youd have to move the turbo forward, i think. you can build your own header for that or buy one...although not much cheaper than the hooker v8s. im not for sure since i took my heater out so it wasnt an issue. but if you have the skill to do either swap, you should be able to fab up a header. ive got 45-50 into mine. i think ive also read that the factory turbo location would need a notch in the right front inner fender, above the control arm. although i didnt do it yet and i havent had any trouble or wearing issues, a "u" or "v" notch for the clutch cable isnt a bad idea unless you have a "d9" (i think thats the right stamping) straight pull bell. the tranny crossmember needs the notches for the mounting studs elongated to the rear about half an inch or so. i think thats the same with the v8 swap if i remember correct. and for the t5, the floor has to be cut about 2 inches forward to fit the shifter. as far as the wiring, its not as hard as it seems. although it can be intimidating. the biggest problem that i found was findint where to route the wires as clean as possible. i just ran mine behind the firewall than out through the factory harness right under the speedo cable. keep in mind, the plugs only connect with one sensor. well, other than the fans.
both set ups need different yokes unless the c3 is the same as the c4/t5. but i dont think it is. im sure the 4 speed "fog" units were different. i also shortened my driveshaft a little for my set up. with my v8, i had a mustang ii driveshaft but i dont remember if it fit right.
in the long run, both swaps arent too hard. as long as you have patience and some skill, you can do either. its a mater of what you want. build something youll enjoy. waiting for the right thing pays off.
just my 2 pennies
bob
I'm by know means an expert on the subject but I have to agree with steve on this one. You can spend a lot of $ very easy on a turbo project...or you can be patient and wait for the deals. If you just keep your eyes open they will come. I spent a lot more than I needed to my first time around b/c I was in such a hurry to get it on the road. I am now working on my second one and have almost everything that I'm going to need for the swap at a fraction of the price.
As for the decision between V8 or turbo, I strongly encourage you to take a trip down to Greenwood SC and get a ride in Curtis's(Turbo Toy) pinto. I did, and I couln't stop smiling for weeks! Of course that was back when he had the small turbo and about 240 hp. I think now he's somewhere in the neighborhood of 450 now. :hypno: Plus it's so much fun killing expensive V8 guys egos with a 4 banger!!!!!!!!
Well you know what they say opinions are like but holes everybody's got one. Really you cant go wrong either way they both will be a sweet ride. Personally its a feel thing, its like a my Harley Davidson. I put a set of 107 ci jugs 10.5 pistons and a nice cam. When your riding it you can feel the pistons slapping you in the rear, gets the testosterone goin, with my pinto i want to feel the v8 with 10.5 comp. and a nice thumpin cam. I want to coast into a drive in thumpin thumpin. and when i want to go fast i can, but i am gettin old so its more about the thumpin, just my opinion, you make it what you want it to be then you'll love it. 8)
I knew I could count on you guys and get some honest opinions and answers. Yall have gave me a lot of ideas to work with. 8)It is up to me now to take this info, research, and decifer it and make a choice :read:. THANKS to all. :drunk:
Hmmm..... wonder why the girls didn't chime in? :devil:
i thought they did..............you cant go fast with 140 ci............ :showback:
What a great thread. I too am checking all the possibilities, and hearing people's experiences is priceless. I have considered doing the normally aspirated 2.3, and building it up nicely, but I just don't know. My biggest problem? I have never done anything like this before. Even when I did my frame-off on the '57 Chevy, I left the motor alone, as I was not looking for a killer street machine, just a beautiful accurate resto. The other point is, when you DON'T have the experience, you end up spending more $$ on someone ELSE'S experience. For me, body, paint, interior, detail - no problem, have done, will do. But motor work? Ack - that's where I have no experience (and wish I DID!!)
The Pinto >begs< to look stock, but fly when required. I have not made a decision either way as well, but I appreciate you guys sharing your experiences.
Chris
I have made my decision!!!
I will go one way or the other as soon as I make up my mind! :lol: :drunk:
just dont go both ways!!!!!!
12 cylinder Pinto with four of them turbocharged? :o
Just found an old post by 78pinto dated Feb 18, 2005. Very well written and detailed about a V8 swap in his 78 Pinto. The title is "V8 conversion basics for '74 & up Pinto"
Something else to consider is that EFI is not the only way to go. Mine is carbed and will have a blow through setup on it. EFI right know for me is a lot of dollars compared to doing a blow through.
Just a thought.
jim
Jim:
What equipment do you have on/in your carbed setup? Could I bother you to send me a PM or email and describe what you have? I am wanting to do a normally aspirated buildup, I really am trying to avoid a full blown replacement of the motor with a turbo or V8. Thanks for anything you can share.
Chris
Carolina Boy,
I told you that I would provide pictures and I will by the end of this evening. I'm working on wrapping up end of the week stuff and am filing claims to get my Pinto worked on but I will have some info for you by the end of today. :)
-beegle55
Beegle55, Slow down and take your time, please. Take care of your things first, I can wait.
Quote from: Pinturbo75 on April 02, 2009, 01:22:31 PM
i thought they did..............you cant go fast with 140 ci............ :showback:
That's right. If you want to go fast, you need a V8. :fastcar:
The Mustangll motor mounts (D72-6038-AA) are hard to find. Is there a substitute or a diagram to fabricate something. I'm not too fond of the block plates, to ridged.
I can't say for sure but I have read that if you move the left frame mount back 1" you can use stock 65 mustang 289 motor mounts.
I have rubber insulators under my "block plates", nice and smooth. I think smallfryfarm did his the same way. Plus it frees up lots of room for access to the starter. :)
Carolina Boy,
I don't blame you for leaning towards a v8 install....there is nothing like the rumble of that v8 on startup. Although the turbo 2.3 is a valid...and functionally effitient...alternative. I documented my entire install right here on FordPinto about 5 years ago...find it in your projects...i still mean to have it compiled for quick referance but have yet to get scott the data...dig back...it is in a number of threads cause I did not know at the time about one contiuous thread...duhhh!
Anyway I used a 77 v6 pinto and found it easier cause it had the front suspention and rear 8 inch...i made my own oilpan and fabricated my own rigid engine and tranny mounts...it has proven to be a good recipe and has given me no problems in functionality.
High_Horse
I was wondering about an aluminum Modular V8 swapped into a Pinto. I wonder how much one weighs versus the cast iron 2.3 or 2.8. Or if that OHC configuration makes it too bulky to easily fit under the hood.
Also, people here have talked about dropping a Zetec four popper into a Pinto. Has anybody done it?
i think someone was doing a 2.3 duratec swap. im pretty sure those mod motors would be too wide, although ive never messured.
bob
So did they ever say how the Duratec swap came out?
i dont remember. i would be curious too. theres a guy on turbo ford that was doing one also in an svo. when i checked a few days ago, it hadnt been updated for the past few months. those motors could be had cheap and pull some decent ponys. i think the ones out of the fusions are around 150 stock. 50 more than our 2.3s.
bob
I went ahead and took that mans offer for his 5.0/T5 combo. I gave him $200 and a table saw. He didn't want my engine, lost interest in his project. I'm going over next Saturday with a buddy to pluck the drivetrain.
Forgot to memtion I will be fixing up the 2.3 to ride around and the V8 will be rebuilt and hopefully installed by spring of 2010.
Quote from: dholvrsn on April 06, 2009, 06:25:00 PM
I was wondering about an aluminum Modular V8 swapped into a Pinto. I wonder how much one weighs versus the cast iron 2.3 or 2.8. Or if that OHC configuration makes it too bulky to easily fit under the hood.
Also, people here have talked about dropping a Zetec four popper into a Pinto. Has anybody done it?
Unfortunately, the 4.6 is actually wider than a Boss 429 which would make it....tricky...to install. If you're going to do that much work, hey, why not just go for the Shotgun?
Hey Beegle55, I haven't received those pictures yet. If you have been too busy, I can understand. I am in no hurry.
I do have another question for yall. If I wanted to set the V8 back, could a rear sump pan be used? What about a dry sump setup, would it clear?
Hey CB I dont think their is any way to get a rear sump to work. Im not sure, but thier was just enough room for the bell housing to slide down in their. I moved the rear of the front sump forward about 1 inch and welded it up, and after the motor went in i still had clearance on the oil pan to go back further but with out removing the heater box completly the motor could not go back any further. i did move the heater box back 1 inch or so over the trans tunnel. I am back as far as i can go with the headers that i have, and the heater box back as far as possible. But after i set it in i am very pleased with the clearances i have.
By the way :happy_bday: now go buy yourself something purty. :fastcar:
:devil: :devil: :drunk: :drunk: :lol:
She don't know me verwey well do she?? :devil:
happy birthday robert =) go get something nice for yourself.