OIL CRISIS !!!! for our flat tappet camshaft lobes....
The Feds have mandated that commonly used oils must reduce the amount of zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) content to increase the life of catalytic converters. :mad:
This seems to have occurred "under the radar" for owners like us using flat tappet camshafts.
ZDDP is what provides protection for flat tappet camshafts and for camshafts using higher spring pressures.
They lowered the ZDDP content to 800 ppm & 600 ppm respectively for SAE 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30. All other grades do not have mandated ZDDP levels at this time.
In the past, most conventional grades were 1200 ppm.
====================================================
I have not done ALL the research on what brands have the amount of ZDDP to protect our camshafts, however below are a few that meet or exceed our camshaft requirements.
Mobil 1:
15W-50 has a PPM of 1200. All other Mobil commercial grades are under this amount.
Racing Oil - All meets & exceeds our requirements.
In spring 2009 Mobil 1 will carry 0W-30 & 0W-20 racing oil that meets & exceeds our requirements.
Amsoil:
AMO 10W-40, ARO 20W-50, HDD 5W-30, AME 15W-40 + all their racing oils.
Shell:
Rotella 15W-40 tripple protection
By using the term "racing oil for off-road use only" they seem that they can get around the mandate.
So maybe we need to be using racing oil for even our daily driven flat tappet camshafts!
=================================================
Another way to increase ZDDP is to buy a ZDDP additive.
You can get this from Eastwood
Link: http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemType=CATEGORY&itemID=544
Myself, I would only use this when you are breaking in a new camshaft.
You don't want to play chemist !
=================================================
All other information & comments are welcome.
Yea I have heard this. When I built my last engine the machinest told me to make sure I use ROTELLA to break it in, most importantly for the cam like you said. I had no problems. Since then I have changed to a synethic. With no issues. But that is a very good point. A lot of people could be setting their self up for a rounded cam on break in. Also I use Rottela for some of my older engines with many miles just because it keeps things better lubricataed, like my son's Malibu that has over 200,000 :read:
What is Rotella and can you get it in Iowa or Omaha?
Rotella is oil made by Shell. It is typically formulated for heavy duty diesel fleet use.
Diesels have no catalytic converter, hence the higher ZDDP.
From the small amount of research I did...
For spring, summer, and fall I recommend Mobil 1 15W-50 as a synthetic choice and Shell Rotella 15W-40 triple protection as a conventional oil choice.
For winter, I don't have a recommendation yet.
You can get almost all the oils mentioned at any parts store. I get mine at the local AUTO ZONE or O'Reilly's :fastcar:
I also heard to avoid the oils labeled "energy conserving" for the flat tappet cams.
Go to the junk buy a ranger roller the problem is fixed, You'll spend more in oil that the cost of the cam & rollers.
Your probably right Map. I just put one in my Turbo car, but still using sythetic. Want to buy a good flat tappet cam? I will send you a quart of Rotella with it. :lol:
They make good tomato sticks... (http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/images/smilies/Happy/yes.gif)
Rotella or the other oils made for diesel trucks cost a little more than conventional oils but it is sure good insurance. That is what I will be using in all of my cars from now on!
I recently put a new cam in my 1973 Valiant. I definitely used Rotella and GM - EOS (Engine Oil Supplement). I did the typical 2,500 RPM on start up and the cam broke in fine. But, frankly..., yea..., I was real reluctant to start the car after doing an internet search for "breaking in flat tappet cams."
Tom
Quote from: Starliner on December 07, 2008, 01:37:38 PM
Diesels have no catalytic converter, hence the higher ZDDP.
.
Sorry but the new diesels do have cats now, and so the oil has lower ZDDP. You need to use oil that says for racing or off road use, one way to tell is oil with lower ZDDP has a starburst type symbol on the front of the bottle. When I had the 2.0 in my car I bought oil from the local speed shop, it had an even higher content than the old style off the shelf oil. It was only like .40/qt. more than name brand oil and you can get most any weight needed, all of the diesel oil I have seen are 15W/40. And yea Starliner, they snuck that one in on us!! :mad:
Here is a pile of data to check your favorite oil
Name Vis P (ppm) Zn (ppm) B (ppm) Detergents (ppm) API Date Type Source
Amerilube 10w50 1254 1115 3001 SL 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Amsoil AFL Euro 5w40 701 804 50 1452 SL 11/06 SYN Staveley
Amsoil HDEO 5w40 794 1081 2276 CJ-4 11/06 SYN Staveley
Amsoil Series 2000 Racing 20w50 1014 1123 12 3209 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Amsoil V-Twin/MC 20w50 1193 1281 3564 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Amsoil XL-7500 5w20 434 532 165 1601 SL 08/06 SEMI Blackstone
Amsoil XL-7500 5w20 334 1096 209 3061 SL 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Castrol Act Evo 20w50 765 1126 1724 SG 05/06 DINO Staveley
Castrol GPS 4STK MC2 20w50 767 1133 1544 SG 05/06 SYN Staveley
Castrol GTX 20w50 1157 1422 1848 SM 11/05 DINO Staveley
Castrol GTX High Mile 20w50 1248 1382 1848 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Castrol Syntec 5w40 786 918 1979 SL 09/06 SYN Blackstone
Castrol Syntec 5w50 921 914 58 2628 SM 11/05 SYN Staveley
Castrol Syntec Blend 20w50 937 916 1197 SM 03/07 SEMI Staveley
Castrol Tection Extra 15w40 965 1094 46 2461 CI-4 3/07 DINO Blackstone
Castrol TWS 10w60 425 1294 111 2383 SJ 06/06 SYN Staveley
Chevron Delo 400 15w40 1191 1622 3668 CI-4 06/06 DINO Staveley
Delvac 1 5w40 1390 1803 76 2583 CI-4 11/05 SYN Staveley
Delvac 1300 Super 15w40 1380 1702 78 2388 CI-4 11/05 DINO Staveley
Elf 505.01 VW 5w40 584 1092 2691 SL 05/06 SYN Staveley
Exxon Av Break-in oil 20w50 1 4 23 N/A 11/05 DINO Staveley
Exxon Av Oil 20w50 702 32 33 N/A 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Exxon Superflow 20w50 717 848 96 2650 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Ford Motorcraft 5w20 545 848 298 2005 SM 01/07 SEMI Staveley
Harley Davidson Syn3 20w50 1081 1182 264 1482 SG 11/05 SYN Staveley
Havoline 20w50 425 494 87 1049 SM 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Joe Gibbs Racing XP5 20w50 920 1231 504 SG 04/07 SEMI Blackstone
Kendal GT (Vintage) 20W50 1229 1415 2408 SE 11/05 DINO Blackstone
Kendall GT 20w50 904 1233 2885 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Kendall GT 10w30 582 872 278 1416 SM 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Kendall GT 10w40 598 897 282 1565 SM 11/05 SEMI Staveley
Lucas High Perf. Motor Oil 20w50 386 460 214 1079 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 761 876 167 2630 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 796 907 178 2650 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 808 976 185 3256 SL 04/03 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 0w40 706 834 148 2246 SM 02/05 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 15w50 952 1030 41 2175 SM 03/07 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1193 1376 228 2970 SL 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1062 1279 79 2485 SM 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 906 1024 72 2071 SM 01/06 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1315 1428 226 2593 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 mx4t 10w40 1277 1460 188 2025 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 mx4t 10w40 1411 1623 188 2248 SG 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 R 0w30 1399 1536 178 3051 SG 02/04 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 Super Syn 15w50 1343 1390 205 2601 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5w40 1034 1247 51 2826 CI-4 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Mobil 1 V Twin 20w50 1329 1949 204 2130 SG 11/05 SYN Staveley
Mobil 5k Clean 10w40 660 1028 2895 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Mobil High Mile 10w40 527 1021 2844 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley
Motul 300V Competition 5w40 1317 1409 19 3273 SH 04/05 SYN Blackstone
Motul 300V Competition 15w50 1139 1130 20 2410 SH 05/05 SYN Blackstone
Motul 505.01 VW 5w40 973 1226 2830 SL 05/06 SYN Staveley
Motul Competition 15w50 1148 1327 11 2723 SH 05/06 SYN Staveley
Motul Tekma Mega 15w40 1220 1737 145 3469 CI-4 05/06 DINO Staveley
Mystik 15w40 1130 1224 3104 CI-4 03/07 DINO Staveley
Mystik 10w50 700 799 2003 CI-4 03/07 SEMI Blackstone
Pennzoil 20w50 501 800 223 2062 SM 01/07 DINO Staveley
Quaker State Q Full Syn 5w50 923 908 1917 SM 11/05 SYN Staveley
Redline 15w50 924 1004 27 2287 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Redline 10w40 1440 1872 3039 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley
Rotella 15w40 843 946 26 1881 CJ-4 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Rotella 15w40 996 1130 32 2054 CJ-4 04/07 DINO Staveley
Rotella 15w40 1278 1555 2946 CI-4 11/05 DINO Staveley
Rotella 5w40 1397 1552 2921 CI-4 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple 20w50 668 763 2034 SJ 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple 20w50 1290 1337 3295 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple Max Cycle 10w40 4085 1222 2599 SJ 07/05 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 3179 1030 2142 SJ 04/07 SYN Blackstone
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 3907 1458 2478 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple Racing 51 20w50 1285 1417 2639 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley
Royal Purple XPR 10w40 1034 1741 2709 SJ 12/06 SYN Blackstone
Schaeffer 7000 Supreme 20w50 1249 1626 2451 SL 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Schaeffer 9000 Supreme 5w40 1113 1315 10 3126 SL 07/05 SYN Blackstone
Torco SR-1 20w50 363 412 759 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco SR-5 20w50 1072 830 10 1481 SG 02/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco T-4SR 20w50 1059 969 1293 SG 05/06 SYN Staveley
Torco TR-1 20w50 670 571 958 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Torco V Series ST 20w50 1030 1286 2231 SG 05/06 SEMI Staveley
Valvoline All Fleet Plus 15w40 1110 1232 3559 CI-4 10/06 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Durablend 20w50 566 732 13 2606 SM 06/06 SEMI Staveley
Valvoline Max Life 20w50 691 879 17 2170 SM 11/05 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Prem. Blue 15w40 1314 1838 158 4329 CI-4 06/06 DINO Staveley
Valvoline Synpower 20w50 605 689 1786 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Valvoline VR1 20w50 1085 1293 17 2242 SL 11/05 DINO Staveley
Valvoline VR-1 NSL 20w50 835 976 10 819 SL 03/07 DINO Blackstone
Valvoline VR-1 NSL 20w50 842 962 11 838 SL 03/07 SYN Blackstone
Bardahl No Leak/Smoke 53 4 0 11/05 O/A Staveley
Boron Motor Silk 116 0 05/06 O/A Staveley
CD-2 Maxx Detergent 1 7 2416 11/05 O/A Staveley
CMW Racing Concentrate 2292 1147 358 06/06 O/A Staveley
GM Cam Lifter Prelube 5710 5876 29004 01/07 O/A Blackstone
GM EOS Assembly Lube 5762 6221 8265 01/07 O/A Blackstone
Lucas Oil Stabilizer 36 13 0 01/07 O/A Staveley
Power Service Oil Extender 3567 4945 6394 11/05 O/A Staveley
Schaeffer Micron Moly 110 5 0 08/06 O/A Staveley
STP Blue 1704 2436 88 11/05 O/A Staveley
STP Red 2115 3932 901 11/05 O/A Staveley
Valvoline Max Life Protect 537 768 22 3871 11/05 O/A Staveley
Valvoline Synpower 356 551 650 11/05 O/A Staveley
Here are the running averages for all the oils tested thusfar:
API P (ppm) Zn (ppm) B (ppm) Mo (ppm) Ca (ppm) Mg (ppm) Na (ppm) Total
Detergents
SE-SJ 1301 1280 151 357 1936 293 214 2443
CI-4 1150 1374 83 80 2642 199 2840
SL 994 1182 133 273 2347 109 22 2479
CJ-4 819 1014 26 2075 7 2082
SM 770 939 127 122 2135 13 139 2287
I'm not one for additives but it looks like a can of STP might do the trick.
So is it for sure that using a roller cam eliminates this worry about ZDDP shortage in oils? I just installed one in my 2.3 and was hoping to stop worrying about ZDDP content. If not, no biggie.
Yep, your worries are over with a roller set-up.
I know this is an old thread, but what should I use in my 73's 2.0?
anything on starliner's list, anything that is not listed as energy saving or has that starburst symbol in the front.
lucus oil -break in oil- additive seems to work well. Called lucas and asked what oil to use and that was what they recomended for a break in for a 77 2.3. Says it is a zinc additive on the bottle. I used some on the first oil change for a pinto that had been setting for 10 years. I drive this one hard, in the sand dunes with paddles @ 4500, and have never had a problem. I also used it in my daily driver and only possitives.
For cold weather I now use a ratio of 2 quarts of Mobil-1 0W-30 racing oil to 3 quarts of Mobil-1 0W-40 for my 84 Audi 5000 & 73 Pinto 1600.
This gives the you the proper zinc/phosphorus content, low temperature flow, and the properties you need for normal oil change intervals on a street driven engine.
You can buy the Mobil-1 0W-30 racing oil online from the mobil-1 website. It is expensive, but not too bad when you figure the small amount you actually use over time. Example, my 1600 only holds around 3-1/2 quarts total with an oil filter change! Only a little over one quart of the 0W-30 Mobil-! racing oil. The 0W-40 Mobil-1 (European formula) should be available at your local auto parts store.
For late spring, summer, and early fall I stick with the 15W-50 Mobil-1.