Hi all:
Are windshield gaskets available from any supplier? Please let me know. In short, if not, my car is gone. I found a HORRIFIC structural rust hole in my cowl (pics later) that the fender was hiding. Seems years and years of the car sitting near falling leaves allowed the water to run off the corner of the windshield and neatly pool, eating a nice hole into the cowl. Bad part is, it spreads up under the windshield gasket.
IF I decide to fix it, it will be a major repair, beacuse the pillar and metal around the windshield will need to be reconstructed/replaced. Personally, I'm not up to the task, meaning I have to line up someone/somewhere to do it. This one has kicked the wind right out of me. I'm much closer to selling the car as is, or parting it. Yup, nice "rust-free" Texas car. Now I know why the driver's side floor gets wet . ARGGGHHHH......
Anyone interested in rust free fenders, hood, doors, bumpers, running 2.3w/manual, recovered front tan seats, door panels, etc., or a whole car? That's the direction I may be headed.
Chris
yes its been posted MANY TIMES even in the last 24 hours... autokrafters makes replacement gaskets in the 89 dollar range.
http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,10031.msg62513/topicseen.html#msg62513
Have a glass guy do the install and hold them responsible for it sealing.
Whats with all the drama.
FrankBoss
Frank:
Thanks. In answer to your "What's with all the drama"?, it's like this - I don't have the luxury that some of you guys have with a dedicated space, the tools, the knowledge, the money to deal with what I believe is a radical repair. It's not a lot of fun to spend what is really too much on a car that has problems I did not expect; I can deal with minor stuff, but major stuff is something quite different. I suppose that's a dramatic answer, too.
If you must, paint me stupid :lost:.
Does that answer your question?
Chris
well you have the car don't yah?
Are you pulling it all apart or doing this in steps?
Lets see some pic's of this damage.
There's always a way. As long as you enjoy the path that gets you there.
And I feel the no funds or place to work issue...
FrankBoss
Chris,
Sometimes I think we get too carried away with what is, "stock, factory etc.." Yet, that caused the problem in the first place when it comes to repairs. First off my "rust free" California car isn't. Most never are. Here in California water still gets into cars through doors, windows and the like. This wets the floors and rusts them out like they were filled with salt water. While I didn't have rust through like you do, my car was leaking at the same weld seam and necessitated my replacing the passenger floor.
My donor Turbo Coupe I acquired 15 years ago had a 1-1/2" hole in the wheel well from an apparent broken snow chain. I cut two pieces of fiberglass about 1/2" oversize and one the exact size of the hole. I then applied this three piece patch with a layer on the outside, inside and the smaller piece in the middle. Well..., 15 years later the car was just hauled away as scrape and that repair was still rock solid!
So, there are alternatives to replacing sheet metal. I realize fiberglass repairs are often frowned upon, but if done right can be a significantly easier and time saving repair.
While I have some issues with POR-15 paint (it's not he "powder coat in a can" it's advertised as) their rust repair products may still be helpful for you. The older I get (51 in a few weeks) the more I realize that adequate is sufficient and perfection results in a short lived compliment.
Tom
< Anyone interested in rust free fenders, hood, doors, bumpers, running 2.3w/manual, recovered front tan seats, door panels, etc., or a whole car? That's the direction I may be headed.
Chris>
/\
This line is the Drama... explore your resources then ask around for other direction, then make a decision. So some images and you would surprise what help and direction you can get..
I have Ideas...
FrankBoss
OK, here's pics of the cowl damage.
Frank: It doesn't matter whether you interpret it as "drama" or not, it may be the option I choose. Regardless, why is it important that your impression of my "drama" is pointed out? I appreciate the feedback, but not the pointed finger. I simply would not accuse someone of drama if they were having an issue that was overwhelming them.
Wittsend: Thanks for the helpful input, I guess what I appreciate most is your comment about "being adequate" - my problem IS that I am a perfectonist, and I want everything right.
Any other inputs welcome.
OK..I'll just keep my suggestions on repair to my self.
But thats very repairable.
Enjoy.
FrankBoss
Chris, that does not look too bad? I have seen worse. They do make a panel bonding adhesive that supposedly works good. I have seen it used on TV in place of welding. Else maybe you can find a body shop to weld in a quick patch for you?
Years ago, when I was in high school, I was down in the dumps with my 67 Mustang. I had worked so hard to get it running only to have some lady pull out in front of me and destroy all my hard work. I moved forward and began to repair it, again, however this time more and more went wrong. Everytime I fixed something, something else would go wrong or break. I was so frustrated with it that I wanted to sell it. I almost did. In time, I eventually got all the bugs worked out of it . I am so glad that I still have it. I guess what I am saying that things may look bad now but if you give it some time and tackle one problem at a time you will eventually have a nice solid car that you will be proud of.
But what of the involvement beneath the windshield rubber? That is what concerns me most; the only effective route will be to pull that as well and get all the rust. Sounds like a big job. I guess I should have expected it, I was dreaming to think that there would be nothing major. Problem is, I bought a running, driving car, and thought I did OK. Two days after I parked it, brakes went out. Then, I started finding the rust. It gets disheartening. Seems the more I take apart, the more I find :mad:.
Guys, I appreciate the support. Frank, I did >not< ask you to stop giving suggestions on repair, so please continue and SHARE IDEAS. If you don't, I understand. Please don't confuse passion with drama; yes, I probably went overboard, but the truth is, when I saw this is kicked the wind right out of me. I hope you'll reconsider, it was just hard to hear that.
I really want this car. I paid too stinking much for it in the first place to let it go. More of it is frustration, since I don't have a covered parking place, and the wife is ready for me to send it away on a tow truck. She completely does not understand the motivation at all, and thinks it's a piece of junk/waste of money :amazed:.
If anyone can share their experiences with similar rust, please do so. I'll try to be drama-free. Sorry for any misunderstanding. I need to calm down before I post. Sadly, this is the only place on planet earth to "share the frustration" - and I am thankful for it.
Chris
Pintony:
You talking about the '72 Runabout in Ennis? Man, I should have saved my money for that one. Nice car, but I don't think it has air - which you HAVE to have around here.
If I had the money, you'd be on the way here right now.
Chris
Chris,
I think most people agree that your rust is repairable. While ideally the windshield would be removed and a panel fabricated and welded in, investigate the POR-15 stuff, fiberglass and other forms of repair. A lot of that stuff can be forced up into the windshield rubber. Again, "ideal and acceptable" is a very broad spectrum. Given that the area is "hidden" makes it just that much easier.
Have you pulled the carpet and looked at the floors? My driver side was rather decent, but the passenger side front was too far gone. A few pin holes in the rear, but the front I replaced. I was able to make a nice panel out of a steel computer case.
If that is all the rust you have then I would say short of being an, "Arizona, garaged all its life" car, that is not too bad. My "California" car has surface rust, rust in the same area you do (thought it was not too deep), a rusted out front floor and the rear hatch area (or whatever it's called on a wagon) has significant rust where the seal is glued. Not quite like the sellers description or the pictures on Ebay. But, I can accept repairing it, or living with it.
Don't count your car short until you have taken a balanced approach to weighing the good with the bad. Remember these were "disposable" cars that are in their mid-thirties. Some TLC is needed.
Tom
Back when I first got my 74 stang I'd never worked on anything that old and didn't know jack about them (I still ain't no know it all). My cowl was rusted much worse than yours even to the point that my wiper motor was only hanging by about an inch of rusted sheet metal, the passenger side was even worse, almost nothing left above the heater core. Well with no skills and no money I took some very thin, easy to bend sheet metal that was once a roof of a barn. and three tubes of liquid nail and viola! fixed, for the wiper motor I made a bracket out of a bed frame. The rear floors were pretty much gone so I "fixed" that with some pop rivets and the sides of an old washing machine.
Come to think of it Its still holding up today. 8)
It may be halfassed but I'll never sell the car (it was my gramp's) so I'll "fix" it the way I feel like it and drive it till it falls apart. ;D All a hillbilly like me needs is a side grinder, some liquid nail and a full can of bondo. :lol:
Chris,
I can understand your disappointment and frustration when you think you have one thing and it turns out to be something else. I don't really know how to fix sheet metal so I couldn't help you there but I do have a suggestion before you make a decision.
This is not to discourage you in any way but to prevent any other potential surprises down the road with your car. Based on the corrosion you found under the fender I would guess there might be more hidden in other areas of the car. If not that would be great but you don't know until you look around.
I would take out the whole interior of the car, seats, carpet, insulation, door panels, kick panels, plastic panels, spare tire, tailights. This will allow you to see inside the doors and the shell of the car where water could leak in and collect. I would also get a telescoping mechanics mirror and with a flashlight look in every nook and cranny the mirror will fit in. You will find surface rust everywhere on the inside. What I'm talking about pitting, holes, major corrosion. Also look at as many spot welded seams as you can. Sometimes bad corrosion can start at a seam. Try to peel up small sections of the weatherstriping to look for corrosion underneath. I would also take the other fender off to look the cowl area.
Again I hope this doesn't come across as discouraging or negative. This suggestion is just so you can get a accurate picture of all the rust issues throughout the whole car so you can make the best decision possible as far as to repair it or let it go.
Bob
Hi guys:
About two weeks back I posted a thread called "Rust loves to hide", where I found, much to my dismay, that the passenger side floor of the car was quite a bit more rusty than I had imagined. Go back and take a look if you are interested. To date, the interior has been completely removed (well, the carpet, seats, and all padding up to the rear deck). All the rust has been since treated with POR-15, and I have to say, it turned out quite nice (I will post some pics here soon). I found nothing that warranted major welding or cutting. I also have pulled the door panels, to find that the door interiors look pretty solid, though there is one hole in the passenger door, neatly hidden by the rubber seal.
Aside from that, I bought the car knowing about a pretty long and substantial inner fender hole caused by battery corrosion. This one was obvious, and I did not let it bother me. The hidden surprises are the "fun ones" :nocool:.
The cowl "discovery" was just that - my vents were full of leaves, so I took the time to remove the hood of the car and clean the leaves out. In order to get to the drain ends, I opted to pull the driver's fender back - to discover what I showed here today. Quite a dissapointment! I really appreciate the encouragement, after all, that's the point of this forum - to help each other, to share the experiences, to tell the tales. Thanks for those who could offer up suggestions, support or ideas without judgement. In the end, I'll probably go the "Wittsend" route - clean up what I can, do damage control, and move on. Sure, I'd like to have a rotisserie restoration....but that's me. I also like 2.3stang's attitude!!
I'll keep you posted on my results/progress.
Chris
Found this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-1978-Ford-Pinto-Windshield-Weatherstrip_W0QQitemZ160261249978QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160261249978&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
Man Am I glad I viewed this post.
Is this POR-15 stuff like rust mort or OSFLO?
Now I understand your reply in my post, saying the kiss of death is rampant,.. I too freaked out when I pulled the gasket for my hatch. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread. I feel there is hope.
I wouldn't say that everyone here is blessed with having a place to work on their vehicles. I find myself, more often than not, doing work to my car in the parking lot at work (McDonalds), or at a friends house on his drive way. As long as I bring my own tools I can do quite a bit.
Overhaul and very large tasks, like replacing my carpet, are done at my parents, but I very rarely get to use the garage. The only time my car gets to be covered is when it's parked under the carport at my apartments or rarely when I am working on the car at my parent.
I have rust problems with my little blue Pony too! The last time I washed the car the drying towel got snagged on some flaking paint on the passenger's side quarter panel. Turns out that the metal is so rusted that there are small holes all along the bottom of the quarter panels! My driver's side floor pan....you can see the blue towel I put between the carpet and the pan when you look underneath the car.
I will replace the floor pan eventually, sometime when I can use my dad's garage all day and he'll let me practice with the welder.
As for my quarter panels, those will have to wait until I have the car repainted in the next few years (if I can afford it). I just have to cross my fingers and hope that they don't get to much worse.
My windshield gasket is rotted as well, I'm having a glass shop replace the gasket, but I have to order it as their supplier doesn't carry it. I will be looking at about $80 in labor!
Some things I'm not really comfortable doing myself, like the floor pans and the windshield gasket. But I'm going to tackle the floor pans since reading about so many people replacing their own has eased my nerves and it doesn't look as hard as I make it out to be. I wouldn't dare deal with as much glass as my windshield and try to suspend it over the car though. I'll leave that one to the professionals! :P
I have thread over in projects call project Shur'ta'gul. Go to the last page or read through it if you want, and see pictures of my "garage" and my "machine shop".
Yes it is frustrating to be surprised with things but what i have found that works for me is to divide the work into small groups and then take one at a time. Concerning your repairs I would suggest that you do a small spot to gain experience and confidence and then you can tackle a large job. When you are done the sense of satisfaction is huge. Most Pinto owners go through this procedure, it just seems to come with working on a 30 year old car.
Hang in you can do this.
jim
Quote from: Ironman on July 16, 2008, 10:51:13 PM
Man Am I glad I viewed this post.
Is this POR-15 stuff like rust mort or OSFLO?
Now I understand your reply in my post, saying the kiss of death is rampant,.. I too freaked out when I pulled the gasket for my hatch. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread. I feel there is hope.
Ironman:
Thanks for joining me here :lol:. I think hope is all we can cling to, man, this stuff will really surprise you. Not having any experience with rust mort or OSFLO, I cannot make a comparison. I will say, however, that I am exceedingly happy with the POR-15 repairs in my floor pans. The stuff is rock hard, like they promise, and seems quite impermeable to anything once applied.
On my cowl, I have not yet decided the course of action. My options are:
1) Remove windshield, consider all related damage and address appropriately
2) Leave windshield in, grind out the area as thoroughly as possible, POR-15 all of it, and call it done. Don't know if this is a good solution, but I know the POR-15 would do the job.
The second option is more temporary, though quicker and less costly/time consuming. I guess it really depends on how much I want to engage the issue. Removing the windhield would help me in other ways, because then I could get at my headliner and have more direct access to the dashboard, which needs repainted. I will let evryone know where it goes.
Chris
Hey Chris,
the last couple days I havnt had time to work on it,.. I bought a light rollover 97 S-10, I've got to get straightened out enough to make a 1000 mile round trip weekend after next. I found a 71 Sedan fourspeed car that looks like I might drag it home.
When you pull your windshield please post some pics. I'd like to see the proccess. I'm begining to think my window trim is somehow "magicaly" attached,..
I have tried to follow the directions I was given and so far its to no avail. It is however getting looser. :lol:
Mike
Ironman:
Will do. I am in the process right now of lining up a shop space (found 1200 sq ft of shop for $450/month about 5 miles away, am working wioth some other car guys to line it up). As soon as the car is in there (2 weeks or so), I will start some major dismantling, because I cannot get that involved with the car out in my driveway.
If you have not, please check out a previous thread of mine calle "rust likes to hide", where I show some before and "during" pics of floor pan repair. I have yet to post the final pics (this weekend), it turned out great.
If there is anything I can do to help you, my knowledge may be somewhat limited (I'm no welder, but WANT to learn), but at minimum I can give you moral support and share my own experiences!
Chris