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Offline Pintoman1971

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Want more horse!
« on: August 17, 2015, 12:11:47 AM »
Ive been doing some research but i still have questions. Im curious of what to do, I want my 71 runabout to eventually have around 300 horse. I know its alot to ask for but Im looking for something that i will be able to take to the local track and strip every now and then. I know the 2.0 isnt capable of such horsepower, which options would you all recommend? I played with the thought of a supercharged 2.0 but still not thinking its going to get near the hp i want. Looking for something that will drop some jaws and also be reliable. I have been looking at a 2.3 turbo, havent found too much info on a swap into a 71 and what exactly is needed step by step. So many opinions on whats the better option and would like to hear some info from numerous people hopefully with personal experience. Hopefully i will be able to have a list of all the things i need before i start collecting the parts. Let me know what you all think. Thanks a bunch, its appreciated.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2015, 12:21:07 AM »
I vote turbo.


1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2015, 07:54:20 AM »
One thing you have going for you is its a 71 , the lightest pinto, a few hundred pounds to the lean side so if you would turbo the 2.0  ( I see kits still floating around out there) it would run very well,  or drop a turbo 2.3 in it but hurry because these are drying up and starting to be harder to find , and the price will go up also, stuffing a V 8 into it is kind of mute also, unless it's all aluminum,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Pintoman1971

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2015, 02:21:23 PM »
Yeah i have no desire for a v8 in it. Pretty pointless for what i want the car to do. I would like it to be able to go around corners still lol so when you say a 2.3 are you talking about a turbo 2.3 out of a thunderbird and mustang? Whats the wiring harness change like?? You vote turbo the 2.0? whats capable out of the 2.0 with a turbo and how hard is it to do a turbo 2.0?? Keep in mind it will be a complete engine build, so its not gunna be a stock engine on high boost.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2015, 02:34:38 PM »
A couple of comments:

"I want my 71 runabout to eventually have around 300 horse."
 300 HP from a small 4 cylinder and reliable usually don't go hand in hand. There are some that are more reliable than others, but anytime you increase the power output it comes at the lessening of reliability over the long run.  BTW, is there a reason you chose 300HP? Again, a smaller engine will only bring that type of power at high RPM's with a spiky torque curve. Not the best for reliability or mileage either.

"I have been looking at a 2.3 turbo, havent found too much info on a swap into a 71 and what exactly is needed step by step."
In addition to others, recently 65 Shelby Cobra has done a running write up on his '72 project. While there are some differences with a 74-up Pintos, 76 Hot Rod Pinto has done likewise. My '73 has a write up in two parts.  So, in fact there are pages and pages to read all about it. Note that 71-73 swaps are virtually the same and even 74-up swaps have minor differences.

65 Shelby Cobra's Turbo 72 Pinto build: "My 1972 turbo swap thread"
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=24739.0

76 Hot Rod Pinto's Turbo 76 Pinto build "Taking the Turbo Plunge":
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=25663.0

Wittsend (me)Turbo 73 Pinto build: "So you want to build a Turbo Pinto (Parts 1 and 2)"
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11908.msg76893#msg76893
http://www.fordpinto.com/general-pinto-talk/so-you-want-to-build-a-turbo-pinto-part-2/msg76894/?topicseen#msg76894



Offline Pintoman1971

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 02:42:42 PM »
I would be happy with anywhere from 200-300 horse. Ive read that the 2.3s are pretty capable of such horsepower. Would love to keep the 2.0 in it to keep it original but im not thinking its going to put out the power im looking for.

Offline Pintoman1971

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 03:50:27 PM »
What kind of power would you expect to get out of a built 2.0 with head work and a turbo? or maybe a supercharger? Seems like the 2.3 swap is a bit more than im up for honestly. Your write up was the first detailed write up ive came across, Thanks Wittsend!

Offline fast64ranchero

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2015, 07:07:08 PM »
What kind of power would you expect to get out of a built 2.0 with head work and a turbo? or maybe a supercharger? Seems like the 2.3 swap is a bit more than im up for honestly. Your write up was the first detailed write up ive came across, Thanks Wittsend!

You can get 300whp out of one, the problem is finding good parts for the early 2.0L.  Have a look at Burtonpower.co m.
I have done a Turbo 2.3 in a 71 and have almost everything to finish a turbo install on my 72 with a 2.0L.  You will spend more money on a turbo 2.0 but won't have to go through the hassle of cutting out motor mounts and installing later 2.3 motor mounts, and finding a oil pan for a 2.3
71 Pro-Street pinto 2.3T powered
72 Treasure Valley Special 26K miles pinto
72 old V-8 parts Pinto
73 pinto, the nice one...

Offline C. M. Wolf

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2015, 09:46:08 PM »
http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/2_8L_Performance.html

Hunt yourself up a 2.8 Cologne engine and an even better trans & rear-end gear-set.. Gearing is everything..

You'll maybe not see 300 horse out of it.. but you keep up with Porches and still be able to pass a gas station too..

Offline Pintoman1971

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2015, 03:14:20 AM »
What would i expect for power out of a completely over hauled 2.0? Maybe a long stroke, bore it out and major headwork with out a turbo or supercharger? Above the 200 marker? or will i need a supercharger or turbo to reach that.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2015, 07:51:17 AM »
Well if it still running and want a few more ponys , well quite a few more I would just build up the 2.0 as a turbo engine , parts can be found , and as a few people reported that burton power in England has the parts , brought a few parts for my 2.8 , most people believe the 2.0 in the pinto was stopped being made around 74 is wrong , they made it his engine up past 2010, they even have EFI , if the car is a nice one and not a rust bucket and can be restored , I would not cut the car up to do any engine swaps, the 71 is becoming very rare and just doing a few engine mods would be the way to go and easier on the pocket, some good low compression Pistons , mild turbo cam, AK miller turbo exhaust manifold and a turbo, last one I did was back in the late 70s , it was a draw though , the turbo was a T4 B , had the seals so the vacuum would not zoop the oil out into the intake system,  good port job , and a 3.55 rear end gear would do very well , at a later date when you want to sell or restore the car just remove the turbo and install the stock stuff back, save the car , like land they do not make anymore
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline 72DutchWagon

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2015, 02:58:41 PM »
I did a search on this site but no hits on skogenracing which surprised me.
 I suggest that every one with an interest in 2.0 Pinto performance visit the swedish site http://www.skogenracing.org/, and have a look at there vid's like this one .
The swedes are well known for turboing 2.0 Pinto's on a budget, instead of doing up expensive (Pinto based) cosworth turbo's.
Unlucky for US fans is that all the scrapyard hunting grounds are on the wrong side of the atlantic.

Offline Svoturbo92

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2015, 03:30:11 PM »
I have a turbo 2.3 turbo system up for sale if your interested let me know..

Offline fast64ranchero

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2015, 03:53:31 PM »
A turbo'd 2.0 will make 300whp no problem, Big John on this site has a AK miller setup that you might get from him.
71 Pro-Street pinto 2.3T powered
72 Treasure Valley Special 26K miles pinto
72 old V-8 parts Pinto
73 pinto, the nice one...

Offline Pintoman1971

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2015, 05:11:35 PM »
anyone got pics of the AK miller turbo kit installed on a 2.0?? How hard is it to locate one of these kits? and what all is needed to install the kit?

Offline Pintoman1971

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2015, 05:30:41 PM »
Also what carb would I want to upgrade to? was looking into sidedrafts but Im not sure if it will work with the ak miller kit. Maybe switch to fuel injection?

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2015, 05:53:37 PM »
My turbo swap was the first time I've dealt with either turbo or efi (to that extent). The best advice I think I got, was go with a factory made system, for learning. I Have read/heard so many stories of guys just blowing thru heads and blocks trying to learn the lessons of the turbo world. With a swap situation, you can know it all ran (and how), before hand. Not as many opportunities for surprises. You can always upgrade as you want later. I'm very glad I went that route myself. Turbo for dummies!
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline oldkayaker

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2015, 06:32:23 PM »
If you are staying with the 2.0 and its parts availability challenges, suggest you get the David Vizard's good book (note age of info).
http://www.amazon.com/How-Hotrod-your-2-0-liter-Ford/dp/0895863650/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1439938618&sr=1-1&keywords=0895863650

The first link has a photo of the Ak Miller set up parts.  The second link is to turbopinto72's 2.0 turbo build using some Ak Miller parts.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=21802.msg135718#msg135718
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=33.0
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Offline Pintoman1971

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2015, 02:05:02 PM »
So ive read basically every post there is on here about the AK Miller turbo kit for the 2.0. I know what i need to find as far as the turbo kit. But now im wondering what other parts will I need to get or fabricate?

Offline pinto_one

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2015, 02:45:21 PM »
Well if you find most of the kit you will only have to make a few simple things , brackets that holds carb to turbo adaptor , exhaust down tube from the back of turbo , oil return line that drains back into the engine , and oil supply line to the turbo , last if your going to make it a daily diver I would find a 1980 turbo 2.3 carb, it has the 12 volts choke heater than the water unit you have on it now and it also has a external tube to the power valve that ties into the manifold side of the engine to since boost and supply more fuel , have a mide turbo cam and 8 to 1 Pistons , drill hole in button of block for the fitting for oil return from turbo , locate hospital nearby to have surgery to remove smile after first drive 😀
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Pintoman1971

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2015, 05:24:07 PM »
where do most people drill the hole in the block for oil return? Guessing you tap the hole after its drilled? What would be your guess for horsepower out of the build youre talking about? Is it possible to do a bore/stroke with a turbo? I dont know much about turbos, but im slowly learning and reading. Thanks for the good input  8)

Offline pinto_one

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2015, 09:49:13 PM »
 The first one i done (nearly thirty five years ago ) I drilled the hole in the block on the right side between the motor mount casting and alternator casting bolt holes , taped out to 5/8 when done , the next one done was in the same area but welded a pipe nipple at the top of the oil pan rails on the oil pan,  your best bet would to check with burton power for a exhaust turbo manifold , over in europe they have tons of parts for these engines , even a alum block if you have the money , you can see 175 to 200 reliable HP out of the engine if you do not get to greedy with the Boost , also check over seas web site on 2000rs escort and capri , or even 2.0 pinto engine because at the time i think ford sucked the whole supply of the 2.0 engines for the pinto , good luck and do your homework before you tear into the car , best is already have most of the parts on hand when you do , last thing is do not cut anything on the body , you do not have to and you will waste the car , its to valuable , later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Want more horse!
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2015, 08:38:35 PM »
I would like it to be able to go around corners still lol so when you say a 2.3 are you talking about a turbo 2.3 out of a thunderbird and mustang? Whats the wiring harness change like?? You vote turbo the 2.0? whats capable out of the 2.0 with a turbo and how hard is it to do a turbo 2.0?? Keep in mind it will be a complete engine build, so its not gunna be a stock engine on high boost.

You mentioned handling, so I'm going to point out that a 2.3T (yes, out of an '83-89 turbo Ford/Merkur) weighs only slightly less than a 5.0L V8. By "slightly" I mean within just 20-30lbs. Your 2.0 car is going to sag by at least 1.5" with a 2.3T in there and it will handle like a sinking boat until you seriously address the suspension.

I would be happy with anywhere from 200-300 horse. Ive read that the 2.3s are pretty capable of such horsepower. Would love to keep the 2.0 in it to keep it original but im not thinking its going to put out the power im looking for.

I think you would be surprised at how fast a 2400-2600lb Pinto feels with 160-170rwhp and the torque that a 2.3T makes. 240rwhp wouldn't tax the stock parts that much and would make a 2600lb Pinto about as fast as a 300rwhp/3300lb Mustang.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have very seriously considered turbocharging the original 2.0. It is going to need forged pistons and decent rods. In fact, I almost bought some AK Miller turbo parts before finding a whole 2.3T donor car and falling down the whole 2.3-into-an-early-Pinto-swap rabbit hole.

The AK Miller parts aren't common, but they can be found for not terribly bad prices if you have the luxury of time to shop around. The nice thing about a carbureted turbo setup like that is not having to do any major fuel system plumbing nor major wiring. Keep in mind that when the AK Miller kits were made, there was no such thing as the T3 turbos we take for granted now. The smallest turbo housing flange was a T4. Finding a T4 footprint turbo that will work on such a small engine isn't easy now. There are adapters, of course. Then there's the gotcha of turbo compressors seals. Modern turbos have dynamic seals that will not control oil well when a carb or throttle body is put on the compressor inlet(like an AK Miller). The seal needs to be of the carbon positive type which is readily available for pre-GT series Garrett turbos and many others, but they are not a default option when buying.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.