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Offline JoeBob

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vintage car collecting the dieing art
« on: April 14, 2012, 09:09:46 PM »
So I was at the doctors office and I see a magazine article with a title something like "owning the colector car of your dreams."  So I pick it up. It is in the AARP mag. First it says that vintage car prices are at an all time high. It says car collectors are silver haired people with plenty of disposable income. Therefore the high prices. Next is says that car collecting is ending soon. Collectors are reliving their past. There will be no next generation of collectors. After all, who would want to restore an 80s celica or any other 80s or 90s car. The cars we love mean nothing to this new generation.
   I started a thread here once " Who is going to love my bobcat when I am gone" I think it is a good question. Today our cars get the most attention at any car show we attend. But in 20 years people will say "what the hell is a pinto? I don't know, who cares."
Our cars will die with us.
Bill
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Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline OhSix9

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2012, 12:52:33 AM »
Times change, the economics of things say that we will all be riding ultraefficient boring peoplemovers on a day to day basis. energy costs will ensure that sucking back 15 mpg is a luxury and you will need the bankroll to handle that far beyond the cost of the equipment.  As far as it being an old mans sport this has always been the way of the hobby.  Real steel deuces and vickies have been turned into megabuck collectibles for a long time, then the attention turned to the shoebox chevys and followed to the musclecars.

The common folk among us build the lesser stuff to add variety to the hobby.  Think about this.  20 years ago when we where firing up the gas axe and slicing out every pinto front clip that came into our possession to build hot rods did anyone ever think our little pintos would ever be collectible or fashionable.   Humans have a thing with nostalgia. Think about the efforts and hours people have put into the most unusual restoration projects of all kinds that will never provide return on investment.    moving forward there are some really neat things happening.  people are finding and building less mainstream stuff.  (some of the old japanese rwd imports are neat as He hockey sticks if you can find them not rotten) some 80's and 90's stuff is collectible or getting there. Gn's and monties, 5.0's the last 2 generations of supras are still stone cold killers.   the hotrods are going through a generation change. i know lots of what i would consider younger hotrodders in the say 20 35 year old crowd that have some disposable income getting their hands on the stuff and redoing them to taste.    Kit cars are better than ever letting us afford to build some of the really rare stuff. Dynacorn builds new 60's mustangs and camaros every day. FFR and others make cobras and deuces...   My next project without a doubt is gonna be a FFR type 65 coupe.

 The other thing i see changing involves dropping modern drive lines into the old steel. we are seeing a quantum shift in efficiency of the old fashion internal combustion engine.  Direct injection, turbos and electronics are finally showing their potential now that the heat is on re. cafe standards. In regards to the coupe I have a total Woodie over the idea of bolting in a new ecoboost v6 mated to a 6 speed. think 5 years to the future when we are loading 2 liter turbos making 275 and getting 40mpg on 87 octane into the pinto.   that is where the future is.  the hobby is fairly strong and some people still like to get their hands dirty. Modern techniques allow us to make small production runs of parts for decent money making it possible to salvage some of the less mainstream stuff. As long as their are cars there will be people who remember the ones they had as kids, or always wanted....

Speaking of which...  the sexiest thing ever powered by Ford

http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/type-65-coupe/   

I hope the external link is ok.  no harm no foul. mods feel free to disable if required.
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Offline dga57

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2012, 02:31:29 AM »
Well said, OhSix9!  By the way, I have an Ecoboost V-6 in my 2012 Lincoln MKT and it is an absolutely awesome powerplant! 
 
Dwayne :)
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Offline FlyerPinto

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2012, 09:45:03 AM »
I have to say there is some truth in what both of you say. While the big buck collectors tend to be silver haired with disposable income, that is the nature of the beast. When you're twenty five, disposable income, what little you have of it, is directed towards lots of other pursuits, from women to stereos to rent to women to clothes and to women. And don't forget women. The idea of disposable income is hard when you're young and just starting out as your income is lower in the first place as you're just starting out. There is a place over in Springfield, Ohio called Mershons. It is about forty minutes from my house, and they have very cool stuff. Old Vettes, Ferrari's, Mustangs, Cobras, everything hi-po and ready to roll. The dealership is a neat place, but for under fifty grand you should go down the street and buy a Honda Accord. Six figure cars there are the norm. Who can afford that anyway?


Young collectors have to modify or restore what they can afford to buy and repair. Our cars will still have a following, I believe, because they are an iconic nameplate, whether good or bad in the mind of the general public. For those who don't know what a Pinto is, that's cool. Let's show them by getting out to events with our cars and showing the flag, so to speak. I go to a lot of auctions for cars, parts, tools and the like. I see a lot of cars that no one seemed to have any interest in while the person had it cross the auction block, and they always generate interest from the crowd. The latest issue of Pinto Times shows a beauty of a Pinto that sold at auction just a little while ago and there were several bidders. The car was beautiful, and I would have just about killed to bring it home, but I wasn't shopping for a car and my wife would have killed me. People will find the cars they want and that Pinto was wanted by more than a couple of people. They will pass that interest on to someone else, just like the car, and I'll think we'll be ok.


I also like the idea of putting a more modern power plant, or at least some of the components, into one of my cars. It would be fun, and a Stealth Pinto would be pretty cool. Lots of power, no outward sign of it at all, and a big surprise for some import toy.


I have to say that folks seem to be drawn to my Pinto when I take it out. People like them, and people remember them. When the time comes that I can't keep them, for whatever reason, I know where to go to find someone who will care for them in much the same fashion as what I have.
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Offline JoeBob

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 10:17:11 AM »
069 you missed the point of my post. I am talking about classic cars not hot rods. We have always had hot rods from the beginning of time and always will. The guy who added a second horse to his chariot had the first hot rod. The guy doubled his horse power, that's a hot rod. The space shuttle is just a hot rod to the stars. But the classic car is one that people enjoy for it's classic looks and original function.
     You dream of a new power plant in your old car. The t-bucket is the modern version of what you are talking about. Some of the old with some of the new. You imagine that kind of thing with your pinto. You imagine it with a pinto because you are part of this generation. In the year 2535 people will still be building hot rods, mustangs and corvettes will be remembered and used. I agree with the article I read, the classic cars we love will be lost in time. Almost no one will be building hot rods out of pintos, mavericks, or el caminos, they wont even know what they were.
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Offline Pintosopher

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2012, 01:44:15 PM »
Hello all ,
 All perspectives being valid here.. The curve ball I will pitch for you all is this: Noone lives forever, perspectives can be passed on to generations. Think of your possession as you would a Museum Curator, You won't own it forever, but you might be a  good steward of it's existence. Modified or stock, makes no difference, The future of Classic cars is in your hands today, Get going , stop the forces that would erase the heritage you are trying to preserve..  There are no modern day Picassos, but someday there could be.
You are in it now , Be the "ball" Danny!
Pintosopher.. A distant memory in someone's thoughts in 50 years!  ;)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Offline OhSix9

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2012, 01:52:15 PM »
I don't think i missed your point or that of the articles at all.  I Have never really separated hot rodding from restoration in the whole old car hobby.   There are really only two classes of cars.  conquers correct down to the grease pen mark 100 pointers and then there are the rest. .  I will also state that the article itself is nonsensical and stupid.

On classic cars.  really when was the last time you saw a model t on wooden spokes, a deuce that wasn't chopped and channeled or a nash metro with the factory 4 banger in it.

 No one will remember my pinto in 20 years because it has a now current twin turbo or maybe a battery pack and flux capacitor under the hood for motivation... this is the basis of your classic cars vs hot rod mentality.   doesn't make sense.

Things follow a cycle.  for a long time a period correct model T or 32 with all the black paint and brass trimmings where the high dollar collectible car.  At a point the market changed . interest in these cars died out.  the people who drove their prices where no longer around to support them, as with any commodity when supply outstrips demand  the price drops and an interested party will get a good deal.   Lots of these worthless restorations became the rods of the next generation. and they actually recycled some of the original parts back into the system allowing the remaining super original examples to continue to live a little longer. 

There are only so many NOS parts on the planet so at some point the supplies of usable spares dwindles to the point where it becomes impractical to try and maintain an original piece while still using it for its intended purpose. Old stuff gets rarer every day, Prime examples have value for being just that and are relegated to display purposes only to preserve that value. the rest , reproduction parts when available or clever "upgrades" to modern components that keep them viable in lieu of what was original.

80's stuff is starting to be restored. it is definitely a more daunting task with the given added complexity of modern vehicles and the associated black boxes.  it is these items that make maintaining or rebuilding these cars more expensive and there are more things that can signal the death blow. unobtainium integrated circuits are the hardest part about these cars.     combine this with the fact that you just don't find the farmers fields full of 20 year old cars anymore since the advent of modern recycling cash for clunkers,  immediately funneling many many restorable and rare editions directly to the crusher  etc etc etc   .  Will people restore and maintain the remaining prime examples...  always.

so after making my head hurt trying to figure out your original position here is the best answer.  NO the hobby is not dying. Some dipsh1t author for a crappy magazine needed to fill a page and a half of rag to make a deadline.  Our cars are as relevant to the next generation as a 55 chevy is to mine or a deuce to my dad.   In the same way that the restored 85 supra mk II my friend is working on will be to her kids who are a couple years old right now.

Modest beginnings start with the single blow of a horn man..    Now when you get through with this thing every dickhead in the world is gonna wanna own it.   Do you know anything at all about the internal combustion engine?

Virgil to Sid

Offline Pintosopher

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 02:35:49 PM »
So I was at the doctors office and I see a magazine article with a title something like "owning the colector car of your dreams."  So I pick it up. It is in the AARP mag. First it says that vintage car prices are at an all time high. It says car collectors are silver haired people with plenty of disposable income. Therefore the high prices. Next is says that car collecting is ending soon. Collectors are reliving their past. There will be no next generation of collectors. After all, who would want to restore an 80s celica or any other 80s or 90s car. The cars we love mean nothing to this new generation.
   I started a thread here once " Who is going to love my bobcat when I am gone" I think it is a good question. Today our cars get the most attention at any car show we attend. But in 20 years people will say "what the hell is a pinto? I don't know, who cares."
Our cars will die with us.
Bill
Bill ,
 I challenge you to Rethink your position on the future of car collecting, The AARP is no longer an objective publication or organization for free thinking individuals. We have an issue with a radicalized EPA and government intrusion into classic car hobbies. I would ask you to read the SEMA SAN literature online before you proclaim classic car hobbies dead in the near future..
Respectfully.. Pintosopher,
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Offline JoeBob

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2012, 04:53:29 PM »
With out a doubt, the most popular car at any show I have been at, has been mine. This is not bragging. There is nothing special about my restoration. I have a good looking, all original car with upgraded wheels. It is not really a show grade car, just nice. It is the most popular because of what it is.
    There are certain observations that can be made about the spectators. I am sure you have noticed this too. Nobody under 35 even slows down to look at the car. People 35-45 want to know what is under the hood. People over 50 seldom ask about the engine at all, but will talk a long time about the car. The older generation is first interested in the cars of their youth, but also love style and design of the cars that predate them.
    I may be wrong, but the conclusion I draw is this. To the younger generation, if it is not one of four of five famous classics they are not interested. The car is only something that holds the power plant. Any body and frame will do. It is all about the technology. A great paint job or other modification will always draw some interest. It seams to me that the only relevance the word "vintage" will have to the hobby in the future will be this. Does it make sense to buy a new car, take out perfect working equipment, to put in better equipment? It would be cheaper a vintage car.
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Offline blupinto

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 09:13:15 PM »
Bill, I'm with you. I've always favored the original stock cars, as these are the lil' ponies I remember fondly from my childhood. It thrills me to see an as-original old car. I'm not saying I'm a hater of hot-rodded cars, but I do think the old work-horses are getting rarer and rarer because some people don't like the "boring, slow, putt-puttering" stock Pinto. At the last couple Fabulouus Fords shows I didn't see a ONE stock Maverick, and I think they were ALL two-door models. It bummed me out. AS for seeing wooden spokes on a Model T, yes I have (not sure if they were Model Ts but they were that era Fords) I saw at least a couple at Fab Fords the last couple years and a BEAUTIFULLY restored one at the Green Valley Lakes show that had all kinds of wooden components. They're rare, but they do exist.

I disagree that it was a stupid article. It brings a valid point that the everyday cars we saw back in the day are disappearing as we know it and being turned into a sort of hybrid (not to be confused with the greenie's modern hybrid vehicles). The hybrids I speak of have a Pinto body... and little else Pinto.  I suppose I would be called a purist or even some nasty names for me saying that, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it! ;D
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Offline dave1987

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2012, 11:13:28 PM »
It scares me to think of these topics. I plan to hand my pintos down to my daughter and knowing she may not be able to maintain them due to the lack of parts availability is unsettling. I want my dauhter to enjoy driving my pintos as much as I have been able to. Of coarse, all of this depends on what she likes when she grows up and i can only influence her aspect of driving and car preferances.
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Offline Pintosopher

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2012, 10:02:57 AM »
With out a doubt, the most popular car at any show I have been at, has been mine. This is not bragging. There is nothing special about my restoration. I have a good looking, all original car with upgraded wheels. It is not really a show grade car, just nice. It is the most popular because of what it is.
    There are certain observations that can be made about the spectators. I am sure you have noticed this too. Nobody under 35 even slows down to look at the car. People 35-45 want to know what is under the hood. People over 50 seldom ask about the engine at all, but will talk a long time about the car. The older generation is first interested in the cars of their youth, but also love style and design of the cars that predate them.
    I may be wrong, but the conclusion I draw is this. To the younger generation, if it is not one of four of five famous classics they are not interested. The car is only something that holds the power plant. Any body and frame will do. It is all about the technology. A great paint job or other modification will always draw some interest. It seams to me that the only relevance the word "vintage" will have to the hobby in the future will be this. Does it make sense to buy a new car, take out perfect working equipment, to put in better equipment? It would be cheaper a vintage car.
Bill ,
I believe that the Perception that classic cars, as Museum pieces, will never survive the passing of the Generations, is flawed. These trends flow like the tides, and trying to stereotype a generation and a "gap " between such is not a sound , objective outlook. Everyone is entitled to their Fears and Zeal, however out of touch with reality and human nature. The Club exists for all types of Enthusiasts, Stock , Concours, Unrestored, Restored, Resto mod and Even us Vintage racer types. Flapping our Gums ( or beating our keyboards) about our preferences and using fear will serve no purpose.  You have a car that you are happy with, as do many in this club. The type of audience at a show and the attention you can garner is irrelevant. The shows exists, the cars exist, let the chips fall where they may.. Otherwise, this is all just strutting around being overly judgemental..
With all due respect.. This is supposed to be Fun!
Pintosopher
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

Check my Pinto Poems out...

Offline JoeBob

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2012, 10:27:36 AM »
Forgive me, did I imply anyone was wrong to like what they like? I did not state that there is no room here for diversity? I just pointed out two things.  1.There is a difference be vintage and hot rod  2. It seems that the next generation is not interested in vintage cars.  I do not know why that is offensive. Please tell me what was offensive, so I do not repeat the mistake.

Respectfully
Bill
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Offline Pintosopher

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2012, 10:43:14 AM »
Forgive me, did I imply anyone was wrong to like what they like? I did not state that there is no room here for diversity? I just pointed out two things.  1.There is a difference be vintage and hot rod  2. It seems that the next generation is not interested in vintage cars.  I do not know why that is offensive. Please tell me what was offensive, so I do not repeat the mistake.

Respectfully
Bill
Bill,
PM sent  to you..
 
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Check my Pinto Poems out...

Offline Bipper

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Re: vintage car collecting the dieing art
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2012, 12:41:41 PM »
Going back to the original post I think there will always be car collectors in the future even for our Pintos and Bobcats. They might not be in the numbers that they currently are but they will be there. As for who would restore an 80's or 90's car if you wait 20-50 years you will see. Some of them will be restored. History is interesting. My dad is 90 years old. He has told me in the depression people would literally leave a car in a vacant lot and walk away because they couldn't afford it, similar to people walking away from a house they can't afford today. There was everything from Cadillacs to Model T's and everything in between. They were everywhere in LA and Glendale where he grew up. In 1940 people had the same attitude, why would anyone want a car from the 20's or 30's. They are of no value and never will be. They're just junk. With the passage of time that attitude changed. And where did all those abandoned vehicles go? By 1943 they had all been picked up and used for the war effort as scrap metal.
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