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Offline ford.2.3

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weight reduction
« on: November 23, 2014, 01:09:30 AM »
sorry if this post is in the wrong place.    I am going to be building a pinto soon daily drive/road racer r. n/a 2.3 with some mods. I I need some tips on how to make it handle the turns. and how u guys lighten these cars up. I am trying to get as most weight off this car i can or move to a better spot. I plan to move tank and put it in the spare tire place below the trunk floor along with the battary to get weight back there for traction. thanks for the help.
 

Offline russosborne

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2014, 04:40:19 PM »
Well, first of all I hope you understand that this car will never really handle like a sports car.  You can improve on the stock handling for sure though.
Poly bushings.
Probably tubular/adjustable control arms.
The largest tires/rims you can fit.
Subframe connectors.
Replacing the steering coupler with a u-joint. (better road feel if nothing else)
Probably want to lower the car.
All new steering and suspension would be a good idea.
Better shocks.

As far as the weight goes, it depends on how much you really want to do and spend.
Fiberglass parts can be a big help.
Removing the rear seat and hardware and replacing the front seats with something lighter.
Removing all air conditioning and heating stuff.
Converting to manual steering if not already.
Lowering your own body weight (at least that would drop 100 pounds for me if I got to where I should be).
This might be extreme, but get one of those plastic dash caps, remove the padded dash, and use a couple of brackets to mount the dash cap.
Remove the carpeting/padding.
Use aluminum for whatever you can on the engine. Don't know if there is an aluminum head available or not.
Replace glass with Lexan(not really legal for the street, but some do it)
Remove all audio stuff.
There is an Accel battery cable that is pretty expensive but ways significantly less than normal cable.


I am sure there are others.  I am surprised no one else has chimed in yet. Although you might want to try a search on "handling".

The real problem is that you state you want this to be a daily driver. That is really going to limit what you will want to do.  A lot of the above won't be practical for a dd.  You may need to decide which is more important, being a practical daily driver or something that can handle really well but is not something you would want to drive every day. Granted, if you are fairly young it is easier to do both, but being older now I wouldn't want to drive what is essentially a race car on a daily basis. But that is just me.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2014, 09:37:44 AM »
The amount of weight that you can remove will be offset by the roll cage you will be required to have to road race. My road race (SCCA) 72 Pinto weighed 1980# with roll cage, gutted, fiberglass, holes drilled everywhere, lexan windows, light weight wheels($$$$), no front bumper, no dash, and a bunch more. If you have to ask what to do, your in over your head already. Go drag racing cause anybody can do that.
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Offline blink77

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2014, 02:46:00 PM »
don't be a dick!!!!! it's no wonder # of post's are down, with a reply like that!!!

Offline 79prostreet

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2014, 03:05:19 PM »
I've always believed this was a place a person could come to get and give advice,encourage each other in what ever  Pinto venture one had before them. I've found that not always to be true as Dick has shown! It's a sad day when some one so full of wisdom and advice chooses to set it a side and belittle instead.
79prostreet

Offline Wittsend

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2014, 08:10:26 PM »
While Dick may have been more tactful I believe what he was saying was, ' I've spent countless hours and dollars roadracing, gains come in very small quantities and at a high cost. Don't waste your time and energy at a level that will produce no measurable results.' In a sense he probably thought he was doing the guy a favor.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2014, 08:44:54 PM »
+1. This is the internet where conversation takes place without tone, inflection, or body language. If you find offensive something as benign as Dick's post, maybe your skin is not yet thick enough.

ANYWAY...

One effective way to get mass off the nose (and chassis) is to use something lighter than a 2.3. Whatever that is, build it to rev instead of making torque and you could probably get away with a light rear end too.

A front sway bar is mandatory handling gear IMO and many Pintos came sans, including mine. It seems to be popular to add a rear one too, but I'm not sure how it affects the handling of a Pinto specifically. They are frequently used on classic Mustangs to loosen up the rear end and make them break traction more predictably.

A panhard bar or Watts link will keep the rear end from moving around on the springs and bushings. Traction bars or a torque arm will eliminate wheel hop and greatly improve straight-line traction...as if a 2.3NA has to worry about that.  ;)

Subframe connectors and a cage will keep the chassis from flexing and put the job of suspending back on the suspension. There also goes 100lbs of previous weight reduction.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2014, 10:33:39 PM »
He guys, I didn't belittle anybody. I simply tried to say that road racing is not the place to try your hand at building a race car with out knowing what goes into building one. Drag racing on the other hand is so simple now that it doesn't matter what kind of car you have, it can be raced with only a helmet and a seat belt. Belittle? I was just telling him the facts of life if you want to become a racer. I've been a racer / builder / magazine writer for 62 years and that gives me the right to say what I please as long as no one gets bent out of shape over it. And you guys know what I say is true.
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Offline Pintosopher

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2014, 07:37:04 PM »
Building serious race cars that can compete and win (Drag or Lefty/righty motion) is a endeavor that separates the men from the boys. If you become serious about the Victory laurels and want that trophy bad, you'll learn from the Wisdom of us Seasoned Citizens.
 Even people who build Prize winning Show Customs know that It's Sweat and Dollars, that make it worthwhile..
  Just a few crusty old words, and tarnished cents worth..
 Pintosopher   ;)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Offline pinto_one

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 03:54:04 PM »
I noticed that us (old guys ) have been around playing with our toys (pintos) and bringing them into the 21st century, as with Pintosopher with his road race street pinto and dick1172762 with years of building and writing on such matters and me racing them in the past , when we do show up at the track, any track we are the under dogs, and you know we are noticed , but we always leave our mark , I done the drag racing for quite a few years , others done the dirt track, did not like that because they beat up a good pinto, if your going to mod the car don't cut it up if you do not have too, you might want to restore it one day in the distant future ,  like land they do not make any more , back then when I did they were still making them , and on drag racing every 100lbs was worth 2 tenths of a second , (swiss cheesed the car) in the late 70's with a 2.3 turbo, and a fake roll cage of foam covered PVC pipe (lucky I did not roll the thing and die) had the car in the low 11's and had my fun, later reinstalled all the wiring heater and all the stock stuff and sold the car , they never knew that it was once a 11 second car, now I'm looking for gas mileage not speed with my old age, good luck to all with your projects , just don't waste the car ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline dick1172762

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 05:35:26 PM »
I've owned 16 Pintos since 1972 and fully half of them were ones that somebody started to make into a drag race or road race car. All were bought for penny's on the dollar. Some as low as $50. Some for free just to haul it away. What screwed up the cars? People watching TV races and thinking they could do that / build that / race that with out any back ground as a gear head. Didn't really matter 30 years ago as there were Pintos on ever street for sale. Then came mini-stock / pony stock and hundreds of Pintos hit the dirt. Now we never see one, but there is always somebody out there that wants to cut one up and go "RACING". Well when you do remember my name, and I'll give you $50 for it or what's left of it.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2014, 06:23:53 PM »
I think a lot of times we older guys respond the way we do..., -  has a lot to do with the way the questions get asked.  Posts that read with improper grammar (of the simplest kind), misspelled words and improper punctuation sets the wrong tone.  Other times posts read something like, "If my Uncle gives me the Pinto..., When I get a job next Summer..., I don't want to spend much money, but what do I have to do to get a Pinto to go from 0-60 MPH in 4 seconds... ."  The statements are often 99% enthusiasm and 1% resources (or something of the sort).

We look at our own mistakes in life, those of our children and feel a sense of responsibility to be the voice of reason. No one here can prevent anyone from doing what they want, but for me I'll always try to be the voice of reason until things appear to be 51% resources and 49% enthusiasm.

Offline amc49

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2014, 07:16:57 PM »
X2 to that and you put it far more tactfully than I ever could, what with me being just like Dick.......... .

Reality ALWAYS wins out over misplaced enthusiasm, and sometimes it can be pretty ugly when it happens. Enthusiasm tempered with a good dose of reality based hard thinking and applied good knowledge has a much better chance of producing a viable real world 3D object d'art. This kind of stuff is deadly to posers........ .you gotta go all the way or nothing at all.

Offline sedandelivery

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Re: weight reduction
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2014, 07:32:24 AM »
OK, I have seen so many guys get a car, say '55 Chevy or Monza, or a Pinto. They put a huge engine in it, put 4.11 gears in it, spend a fortune on it, and find out its not practical for anything except the drag strip.
Then they try to sell it, usually for a loss. I have seen many 1/2 done projects for sale for cheap, or in a back yard, and in the local U-Pull it yards (last time a nice 50 Ford-wish I could have got it before it ended up there!)