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Offline blupinto

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2016, 02:23:29 AM »
Sadly, with a few (and I mean A FEW) exceptions, I've been made to feel unwelcome here. I used to love to natter with fellow Pinto Peeps, but politics and the "everybody gets a juicebox" mentality kept me away. When I've asked for advice here, I got very few responses... making me feel like I'm wasting peoples' time asking. Frankly, the Pinto Peeps on FB have been more accomodating.  I miss the good times we had here, but I won't hang out where I'm not welcome. I do visit, because a few dear friends are here and not on FB... but the welcome feeling is gone for me. It looks like others might be feeling the same. 
 :-\
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Offline Wittsend

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2016, 02:35:21 PM »
First let me say I have a diverse collection of cars and thus am on a number of car forums.  Something that had always stood out to me was the number of females on this forum. It truly set this forum apart from others I participate on.

 From my perspective I never recall any woman asking a stupid question.  There may at times have been naive questions, but those are not gender specific and common to every aspect of the human being (male or female).  I remember that you were a frequent poster who often spoke with enthusiasm about being a Pinto owner.  It was rather noticeable when you and the other woman posters seemed to drop off the forum.  With the exception of one particular poster who seemed to speak his mind on a regular basis, I don't recall posters making comments derogatory to woman - on a regular basis. And, even that particular poster stated he was "poor" with the words he chose. I don't offer that as an excuse for him but only to say he had some form of of a conscience - even if way after the fact. If it is any value I don't recall him posting here in some time and assume he has left.

This is not my website, nor am I an administrator.  Regardless, I think we all need to be considerate towards each other.  And sometimes that includes overlooking a persons shortcomings.  Too often on ALL the forums I belong people seem to want to display their knowledge more than they want to help one another.  On the other hand people need to not be overly sensitive.  When I reply to "Turbo 2.3" questions (especially in earlier cars) I come on rather strong implying, "Do you know what you are getting into?"  But, I do that because unless the person has the experience with the needed tools, access to the parts, and the time there is a far greater likelihood they will wind up with a pile of parts and a disassembled Pinto than a completed turbo car.  In my mind I am being considerate to the potential end result.  And in a number of cases the individual was likely thankful they left their Pinto stock, or bought a Turbo Subaru etc.

Other times people will take the "Give you a fish, you eat  today. Teach you to fish, eat for a lifetime perspective." But, depending upon the presentation.. ., and or reception it can come across as not helping the immediate need. The initial reply was to "teach" (with good intent) and the recipient took it was being "lectured to" with them having time constraints that only a quick, simple answer would have sufficed.  Neither party was understanding the other.

I'm sorry that you and other woman have felt unwelcome.  It shouldn't be that way.  Have you and the others expressed this to Scott or Dwayne?  If I may offer this advice, men deal in specifics (He said..., He did..."). In your post you use the words "feel/feeling" three times (combined).  Men generally don't "go there" in a dispute.  And, being that the forum is likely 98%+ male... .

Lastly, I don't think you and I have ever had points of contention.  But, if I've ever been offensive my apology.

Tom

Offline Pintosopher

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2016, 03:23:01 PM »
First let me say I have a diverse collection of cars and thus am on a number of car forums.  Something that had always stood out to me was the number of females on this forum. It truly set this forum apart from others I participate on.

 From my perspective I never recall any woman asking a stupid question.  There may at times have been naive questions, but those are not gender specific and common to every aspect of the human being (male or female).  I remember that you were a frequent poster who often spoke with enthusiasm about being a Pinto owner.  It was rather noticeable when you and the other woman posters seemed to drop off the forum.  With the exception of one particular poster who seemed to speak his mind on a regular basis, I don't recall posters making comments derogatory to woman - on a regular basis. And, even that particular poster stated he was "poor" with the words he chose. I don't offer that as an excuse for him but only to say he had some form of of a conscience - even if way after the fact. If it is any value I don't recall him posting here in some time and assume he has left.

This is not my website, nor am I an administrator.  Regardless, I think we all need to be considerate towards each other.  And sometimes that includes overlooking a persons shortcomings.  Too often on ALL the forums I belong people seem to want to display their knowledge more than they want to help one another.  On the other hand people need to not be overly sensitive.  When I reply to "Turbo 2.3" questions (especially in earlier cars) I come on rather strong implying, "Do you know what you are getting into?"  But, I do that because unless the person has the experience with the needed tools, access to the parts, and the time there is a far greater likelihood they will wind up with a pile of parts and a disassembled Pinto than a completed turbo car.  In my mind I am being considerate to the potential end result.  And in a number of cases the individual was likely thankful they left their Pinto stock, or bought a Turbo Subaru etc.

Other times people will take the "Give you a fish, you eat  today. Teach you to fish, eat for a lifetime perspective." But, depending upon the presentation.. ., and or reception it can come across as not helping the immediate need. The initial reply was to "teach" (with good intent) and the recipient took it was being "lectured to" with them having time constraints that only a quick, simple answer would have sufficed.  Neither party was understanding the other.

I'm sorry that you and other woman have felt unwelcome.  It shouldn't be that way.  Have you and the others expressed this to Scott or Dwayne?  If I may offer this advice, men deal in specifics (He said..., He did..."). In your post you use the words "feel/feeling" three times (combined).  Men generally don't "go there" in a dispute.  And, being that the forum is likely 98%+ male... .

Lastly, I don't think you and I have ever had points of contention.  But, if I've ever been offensive my apology.

Tom
Yes, What he said... . ;)
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Check my Pinto Poems out...

Offline phils toys

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2016, 05:10:42 PM »
It appears most of my android issues are fixed.
Thank you.
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2016, 08:55:32 PM »
First let me say I have a diverse collection of cars and thus am on a number of car forums.  Something that had always stood out to me was the number of females on this forum. It truly set this forum apart from others I participate on.

 From my perspective I never recall any woman asking a stupid question.  There may at times have been naive questions, but those are not gender specific and common to every aspect of the human being (male or female).  I remember that you were a frequent poster who often spoke with enthusiasm about being a Pinto owner.  It was rather noticeable when you and the other woman posters seemed to drop off the forum.  With the exception of one particular poster who seemed to speak his mind on a regular basis, I don't recall posters making comments derogatory to woman - on a regular basis. And, even that particular poster stated he was "poor" with the words he chose. I don't offer that as an excuse for him but only to say he had some form of of a conscience - even if way after the fact. If it is any value I don't recall him posting here in some time and assume he has left.

This is not my website, nor am I an administrator.  Regardless, I think we all need to be considerate towards each other.  And sometimes that includes overlooking a persons shortcomings.  Too often on ALL the forums I belong people seem to want to display their knowledge more than they want to help one another.  On the other hand people need to not be overly sensitive.  When I reply to "Turbo 2.3" questions (especially in earlier cars) I come on rather strong implying, "Do you know what you are getting into?"  But, I do that because unless the person has the experience with the needed tools, access to the parts, and the time there is a far greater likelihood they will wind up with a pile of parts and a disassembled Pinto than a completed turbo car.  In my mind I am being considerate to the potential end result.  And in a number of cases the individual was likely thankful they left their Pinto stock, or bought a Turbo Subaru etc.

Other times people will take the "Give you a fish, you eat  today. Teach you to fish, eat for a lifetime perspective." But, depending upon the presentation.. ., and or reception it can come across as not helping the immediate need. The initial reply was to "teach" (with good intent) and the recipient took it was being "lectured to" with them having time constraints that only a quick, simple answer would have sufficed.  Neither party was understanding the other.

I'm sorry that you and other woman have felt unwelcome.  It shouldn't be that way.  Have you and the others expressed this to Scott or Dwayne?  If I may offer this advice, men deal in specifics (He said..., He did..."). In your post you use the words "feel/feeling" three times (combined).  Men generally don't "go there" in a dispute.  And, being that the forum is likely 98%+ male... .

Lastly, I don't think you and I have ever had points of contention.  But, if I've ever been offensive my apology.

Tom
Well said... 8)
Art
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Offline dga57

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2016, 01:45:45 AM »
I, too, am active in other online car clubs due to the diversity of the cars I own.  Hands down, the PCCA is the best in my opinion.  I'm not saying that just because of my position here... I would have told you the same thing when I first signed on.  There is a general spirit of enthusiasm and concern for others here that is missing in the other clubs I've been involved with.  Unfortunately, just like any group of people, we are not perfect.  Other than dealing with the occasional spammer, most of my administrative duties entail working behind the scenes to smooth ruffled feathers; sometimes with success, sometimes not.  The biggest problem with communicating online rather than face-to-face is that punctuation doesn't always work to properly convey the tone of our words.  Statements that are made sarcastically, or in an attempt at humor, can be grossly misinterpreted by someone who takes them more literally than they were intended.  I never divulge whatever private communications I have with any member, but in one instance a member was furious and ready to leave over a statement another member had made and, as it turned out, the statement was not only misinterpreted, it was misread!  Once that was pointed out, tempers calmed and everything was okay.  I am always available to anyone who wants to contact me.  I believe in this club and its members and will do whatever I can to help keep it a friendly and welcoming place. 


Dwayne :)
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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2016, 10:35:27 AM »
I don't FB or twitter or any of that...I really like this site and get good responses to my Pinto related questions. Lots of knowledge here without the bull.
   I have many other cars and interests but really the Pinto is the most fun. Maybe because its simple and not trying to be something its not. Kinda like the PCCA.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2016, 12:38:27 PM »
Maybe because its simple and not trying to be something its not. Kinda like the PCCA.

I truly think that you are correct. Not to be self (and collectively) denigrating, but frankly to the outside world the Pinto is a joke.  It was a car that people originally bought when they couldn't afford anything else.  It was the Rambler of the 70's generation. Throw in the  flaming accusations (pun intended)  and things only got worse.

Thankfully people like Glidden, Gapp & Roush etc. gave the Pinto some dignity.  When you think about it the Pinto was its own unique style. It didn't copy any other car, not even looking like a little brother in the Ford line up.  Simple, YES. Simply wonderful.

I frequent a Studebaker site. There are good resources and some wonderful people there. But there is also an underlying aspect of authoritative one upmanship.  Where people will incessantly argue over the smallest things.  One time I cautioned a poster that new, later model windshields were nearly impossible to find. I got reprimanded (in a "Who do you think you are" kind of way) for saying so and then two available sources were linked.  Well, after numerous tries one place never even answered the phone and had no web site.  I later found they they were basically no longer in business. The other place said they had ONE in stock. I inquired if they were going to be able to get any more. Her reply was, "Not likely." I then said, "So, this is probably the last windshield available - ever," And she said, "Most likely so." That is a far cry from the stated reprimand "We ALWAYS get windshields from..."  Anyway, that is just an example of treatment I have never had at the PCCA. We don't always agree here, but we seem to keep it more civil than most.

Offline LongTimeFordMan

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2016, 07:33:25 PM »
i just joined and am excited to find a source like this...

i do it and have a lot of connectivity, but dont have myface or spacebook due to the security issues.

I'm an ole fart and remember when 55 thunderbirds were new, most folks raced flatheads, and only the rich kids had new fangled mustangs..

over the years ive had lots of fords from a 35 sedan to a 36 coupe to many 55 wagons, a falcon sprint and sunbeam tiger.

for the last 20 years I've been restoring mgb's

i recently relocated to dallas from so cal and have been looking for get togethers with pinto folks here.

when i came to texas i started looking for a small, simple, reliable, easy to maintain car and luckily found my pinto in Bakersfield, Ca.

this is my second pinto, the first was a 72 wagon bought new in 72.

hopefully my present one will last long enough to butt along to my grandson some day.

I think forums like this are very important to keep the historical aspects of auto history alive and are a great way to exchange DETAILED info and tips.

too bad more events can't be arranged for get togethers or rallys.

also, whats with the security questions about the year that a 1971 pinto was made.. wasn't production started in 1970 for the 71 models?
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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2016, 07:46:58 PM »
Does your wagon have a black or tan interior? And some screws holding the lower windshield chrome on?

also, whats with the security questions about the year that a 1971 pinto was made.. wasn't production started in 1970 for the 71 models?

It's to keep spam bots from automatically registering accounts. So far they are not advanced enough to answer questions or identify specific image content.
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Offline dga57

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2016, 12:51:33 AM »
I truly think that you are correct. Not to be self (and collectively) denigrating, but frankly to the outside world the Pinto is a joke.  It was a car that people originally bought when they couldn't afford anything else.  It was the Rambler of the 70's generation. Throw in the  flaming accusations (pun intended)  and things only got worse.


I frequent a Studebaker site. There are good resources and some wonderful people there. But there is also an underlying aspect of authoritative one upmanship.  Where people will incessantly argue over the smallest things.  One time I cautioned a poster that new, later model windshields were nearly impossible to find. I got reprimanded (in a "Who do you think you are" kind of way) for saying so and then two available sources were linked.  Well, after numerous tries one place never even answered the phone and had no web site.  I later found they they were basically no longer in business. The other place said they had ONE in stock. I inquired if they were going to be able to get any more. Her reply was, "Not likely." I then said, "So, this is probably the last windshield available - ever," And she said, "Most likely so." That is a far cry from the stated reprimand "We ALWAYS get windshields from..."  Anyway, that is just an example of treatment I have never had at the PCCA. We don't always agree here, but we seem to keep it more civil than most.


You're right; the Pinto was viewed as a joke... but did you ever encounter anyone who DOESN'T have a Pinto story of some sort?  I bought my first Pinto (orange '74 Runabout) new when I was sixteen, primarily because my father refused to allow me to buy "somebody else's problem" and insisted my ride had to be brand new.  He was a Ford man all his life, so my meager budget = Pinto.  I never expected that purchase 42 years ago to ignite the emotional connection to Pintos that it has, or that in 2016, approaching my 59th birthday, I would still own a Pinto.  Go figure!

My worst car club experience ever was with the RROC (Rolls-Royce Owners Club) and was instrumental in the decision to part ways with my Silver Spur.  My $100 per year membership got me a nice magazine publication (The Flying Lady) and that's about it.  If I dared to ask a question on their forum, I was met with condescending, snobbish answers.  It absolutely took all the joy out of owning the car.  The ironic thing is that their most vocalized concern was why their membership was dwindling.  Maintaining an automobile of that complexity without knowledgeable assistance and no dealer support (RR dealerships no longer support the Crewe cars) is nearly impossible.  There seems to be no one moderating their forum, or they would KNOW why members are deserting.  My feeling toward the club became such that I didn't even want to offer my car for sale to its members, which would have definitely yielded the best price.  Instead, I traded it in on a Jaguar XJL Supercharged and never looked back.  I have both dealership support and a warranty now, but I decided to join the Jaguar Forums anyway and, so far, have found it to be a pleasant experience. 

In my opinion, the PCCA is about as good as it gets when it comes to online car clubs, and I'm proud to be a part of it.

Dwayne :)
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2016, 11:15:09 AM »
Take a look at ratsun.net forum for some good tech and many great pictures of all kinds of cars.
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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2016, 11:52:18 AM »
As a Seasoned ( read that Crusty Curmudgeon) Member, I've seen a lot of people come and go with this site. I've endured wonder and derision from people in the real world about "why a Pinto?" in racing. Most of them have no idea, and have been conditioned that only high end German or legendary Japanese cars were worthy of the efforts and expense in the competition world. So , That being said, it's not surprising that a new generation of youth find the unique value of this car and the rare sight of one that's either Original, Modified or All out racing. Vintage racing and show competition is alive and well because of a new wave of interest in cars that don't fit the cookie cutter stereotypes. It goes in cycles, and the interest is rising in these cars.
 So if someone doesn't "feel the Love" then the answer to the perceived insult (real or imagined) may lie in the person at the Keyboard. People with a inability to self diagnose or improve through humility are usually the ones really bent. Walk softly, type with disgression , and attach the image of yourself you wish to be seen as . 
 Two Eyes to see, Two Ears to hear, Two Hands to type , one Button to " Send" Of course,  it's your club , make it better every Day ;)

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Offline Wittsend

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2016, 01:39:41 PM »
Dwayne, it does seem most people have a Pinto story.  Since I got mine in 2007 I had so many people say..., "I used to... ."  When I think back my step-sister had one, and each of my two younger brothers also. In fact one of the brothers had three. Since my motivation was a place to put my existing Turbo Coupe drivetrain I guess I never gave that lineage any thought.  I too hear about dwindling numbers at the Studebaker site (though they have SIGNIFICANT activity). But all personality issues aside they aren't making them anymore, attrition is removing them and those with a linkage are dying off.  What do they expect? That wars will be fought over Studebaker acquisition?

Dick (thanks), have been to the Ratsun site and am actually register there - though I only have a few posts. From what I've seen it was a decent site.  The Datsun was given to me by a friend 18 years ago after it sat in his yard for 16 years. Hanging out in his 510 was the only 'cool' thing about me back in the 70's.  I had it on the road at the start of the new millennium but frankly it is a handful to be a daily driver and with my total fleet size I can only manage a few registered/insured cars at a time.

Picture of the 510 circa 2000's (and prior). Note the bumper, it is off the Tiger. I needed something to hang the plate on, and it fit.

Offline r4pinto

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2016, 11:16:06 AM »
I frequent facebook since it's easier for me and get alerts for the Pinto site on there. I some times look and reply to posts on there, some times don't. When it comes to it I go in spurts. Life keeps me busy, especially since the Pinto constantly takes a back seat to other projects, whether it be fixing the house for an appraisal, working on my Dodge Omni GLH-T, or even trying to get my Dad's 2004 Impala back on the road. Currently I'm trying to fix the Impala so I can use it for a daily driver, and get rid of my Sonic. Doesn't mean I don't think of the site and think of going on.

The big thing... When I leave and come back I notice more and more people I dealt with have gone away. Now could they be busy and doing the same thing I do when it comes to life? Very possible. Just too much to do and not enough time to give everything.
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Offline robertwwithee

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2016, 03:46:29 PM »
Wow, @4pinto.  I do pinto and turbo dodges as well.  I thought it was just me that liked those cars.

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Offline Wittsend

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2016, 03:25:40 PM »
Getting back to the theme of the original post:

 I did a comparison to another car site I frequent. Going back the past two days I see the PCCA had an average of 5 post per day. Over at the Studebaker Drivers Club they had an average of 30 posts per day - and that was only at their three most popular sections. The SDC like the PCCA has a similar site arrangement but to keep the numbers manageable I only selected their most popular sections.  At the PCCA the "Recent" posts display the accounting of all sections. Advantage Pinto (as all post are counted).

 While I realize that a post can cycle many times in a given day it is my observation that it is far more likely to occur at the SDC than the PCCA. Thus, the numbers would be even more heavily favored towards the SDC if that was a considered factor. Since that would require significant more work to calculate I'll use the numbers that are far easier to count. Advantage Pinto.

Is it fair to compare the two sites?

  Here are the numbers. Pinto's were manufactured over ten years and 3,173,000 were built (rounded to the thousand).  Over the last ten years of Studebaker production there were only 638,000 built.  Roughly 20% of the Pinto production.  Over at the Studebaker site the overwhelming discussion is for 1950 and newer (to 1966) cars. So, even adding in another seven years of Studebaker production (1,780,000) the "typically discussed" production numbers still fall short of the Pinto total by nearly half. Advantage Pinto.

The last Studebaker was manufactured in 1966. The last Pinto was manufactured in 1980. A 14 year difference. Considering the closeness of last manufacture date and enthusiast still likely living the advantage falls to the Pinto.

Also an advantage to the Pinto is the manufacture (Ford) never went out of business.  And a number of Pinto parts (2.3 engines in particular) were manufactured long after the Pinto production ceased.  Advantage Pinto.

So, I'm left to wonder why the Pinto community with nearly double the number of manufactured cars during pertinent years (80% more over the last 10 years of manufacture), later production ceasing date, likely more living enthusiasts, and a continuing parts source after manufacture has less than 20% of the site activity at the Studebaker site?   If all the "numbers" favoring the Pinto carried over then the Pinto community should overwhelm the activity of the Studebaker community on their respective websites.

This is not a question to those who run the PCCA.  We are all indebted to their effort. Rather this is a question the the greater Pinto community. I'm not making an indictment, but rather I'm curious to understand the difference.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2016, 09:34:39 PM »
More people like Studebakers than Pintos I guess???..
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2016, 08:26:40 AM »
Facebook is the difference and the reason for the low post numbers on the Pinto site. Also the Studebakers tend to be more of a collector car than a Pinto. Few people on here are planning to make their Pinto a collector item.
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: RIP OLD FRIEND
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2016, 11:36:55 AM »
Very true..
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