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Offline JoeBob

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rear ended no boom
« on: April 20, 2019, 11:38:37 AM »

    It felt like I was hit hard, but the bumper shows no damage. I don't understand these rear fat bumpers. There are no shock absorbers, they just stick out. Mine has been drawn in, but has no damage, just scuff marks. I have it painted with black plastic coat, just a 2 minute touch-up
    True to the reports, my passenger door won't open. The driver door fits poorly and clips the door frame chipping paint. The compression of the passenger side door frame also caused chipping on the trailing edge of the door and body. The leading edge of my doors have 3/16" gap, the trailing edge of each door, zero. At the scene, I did not realize I had any damage.
    I was stopped at a light and was hit square on.  When I looked at my car it seemed normal, but my tag was missing.
    We looked for my plate for a while. We thought it bounced into a ditch or something. Then I noticed that the plate frame on my car looked odd. It wasn't mine.
I was hit so center, that her license plate frame locked on to my plate like a Tupperware lid. When the cars separated her plate frame stayed on my car. The plates were face to face. The back side of her plate frame faced outward. This made it look as if my plate was missing.
    The square on hit, gives me hope that I don't have a twisted frame. I have no idea how serious the compaction of the body is going to be.
Other than the door alignment, the car looks and drives just fine.
     I have upper back pain. I was on my way back from the chiropractor and my back was loosened up. I don't know if this made the results of the impact better or worse. I went right back to the doctor, but the can't see me until Monday.
     Because I was in pain I did not exit the car until the ambulance arrived. My first question to the med tec was, "What does the back of my car look like?" He said men ask about their car first and health second.
      I have Hagerty Insurance. We have an agreed upon value of $10,000. The other driver's insurance will have to pay. I have no idea what will happen when they value my car at just a few thousand. My car is restored to look almost factory new. It cost me a lot to do it, but we all know a great looking 42 year-old bobcat with no upgrades, has little value.
      I will keep you all posted on how the car is. After that I may mention how I am doing.
Bill
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline The Whistler

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2019, 01:04:47 PM »
Sorry for your injuries.  Next sorry for the loss of your car. From what you describe your car is totaled. You may not agree but how do you think get door gaps closed in with out frame movement! The car is the frame! The chassis did its job!
Turbo is a way of life

Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2019, 01:39:23 PM »
As I have stated other places, I know nothing about mechanics. I assumed the body compressed forward slipping a little on the frame. The bumper being bolted directly to the frame, you are probably right.
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Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline dga57

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2019, 07:30:50 PM »
Bill,

Sorry this happened to you and I hope your injuries are nothing more ominous than a bad jar that your  chiropractor can take care of Monday.

As The Whistler pointed out, your car will probably be considered a total loss.  I don't know the laws in your state, but you may be able to collect through Hagerty, whereupon they will sue the other driver's insurance company to recoup.  Another possible route is to notify Hagerty and let them negotiate with the other insurance company on your behalf.  The fact that they were willing to insure it for $10,000 says a lot and should bode well for you in any negotiations.  My advice is, if you haven't already done so, contact Hagerty and at least let them know what has happened. 

Back in 2006, my mother was involved in a head-on crash with a Nissan Sentra.  She was driving a 3 series BMW.  Both cars were relatively new.  The exact same thing happened with the license plates; the Nissan's plate attached itself to her car's in the collision.  I'd never seen or heard of that happening before or since until you described it in your post.  Perhaps it's not as uncommon as I thought. 

Pintos and Bobcats got an undeserved bad rap on the explosion thing.  I bought a brand new '74 Pinto when I was sixteen years old.  When it was about a year old, my girlfriend and I were returning home from a school function on a rainy afternoon when I skidded off the wet pavement on a sharp turn.  We went through a barbed wire fence, grazing a fence post, bounced off a tree, and then hit a cattle loading chute sideways and did a complete rollover before coming to a halt, landing right-side-up.  Other than some muscle aches and minor bruising, neither of us were hurt and the car was still driveable and repairable.  You can't tell me those little cars aren't tough as nails! 

Best wishes on your recovery and keep us posted on what happens with the car.  We care about both.

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2019, 08:39:59 PM »

When I got the car 17 years ago. I had Hagerty insure it for $2000. Each time I made an obvious improvement I photographed it. I would email in photos and request a higher valuation. I would suggest the value I wanted, most of the time they would agree.
    It has been 3 years now that I had the $10,000 value. I was getting ready to bump it up to $12,000. I wanted to install a new graphic first. I stripped off the old one. I received my new graphic last week.  It is not installed yet. Last month I did $1,200 in overdue maintenance. Too bad I did not put that off a little longer.
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Offline russosborne

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2019, 09:42:54 PM »
Bill,
very sorry about your car and your back. Make sure you get to the doctor asap, document everything, and let Hagerty know. And probably just file a claim with Hagerty and let them fight it out with the other insurance company. The other driver's insurance SHOULD be on the hook for any medical costs related to this. Again, talk to Hagerty about it.

These cars do NOT have a frame. They are what is called unibody, where the body sheet metal is the major structural part. They do have what is called subframes, think of them as mini frames, in front and in back. Like where your bumpers mount.  But in between, just sheet metal unless the car has been modded, like mine. These are the same as the Mustangs/Mavericks in that matter.

Your car did what it was designed to do in order to minimize your injuries. In emotional terms, it gave it's life for you.

Odds are your car is beyond economical repair. While it could probably be pulled out on a frame machine, no insurance will pay for that. And even then, I wouldn't drive it without adding sub frames from front to back, and maybe a cage. It most likely would never be quite the same.

As far as the boom, odds are your car had the safety bit added years ago to help prevent the boom. Early Mustangs (65-73) had the top of the tank as the trunk floor. Seriously. And the gas filler neck was open in the trunk from the tail light panel to the tank. Ford has a history of making some stupid design moves with gas tanks.

Again, really sorry to hear this, and I hope your injuries are as minor as you think. But please, keep an eye on things, stuff shows up days later sometimes.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.
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Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2019, 11:43:38 PM »

    I was joking about the no boom. I was not expecting one.
    I am holding out one last bit of hope. It might look worse than it is. My hinge pins were getting worn. The doors sagged, so I cheated. I lifted the doors into the correct position and put a washer on the bolt. This washer is now between the hinge and the mounting. This solved the problem. The doors worked just fine. It did narrow the gap at the trailing edge of the door. This gap was tighter than it should be, but did clear. I did this ten years ago. I don't know what this gap would look like without damage today. The gap might have closed as little as a 1/16th of an inch perhaps 1/8 to cause the problem.
    I will await the expert opinion. If this car is saved it will be a blessing. If it is lost, I will have an adventure searching out a replacement. I was looking for a pinto when I found this bobcat. Perhaps a pinto is still in my future.
Bill
   
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Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline 1972 Wagon

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2019, 03:49:11 PM »
Hope that you are on the mend and not as sore. Your "bump" sounds identical to what happened in 1992 to my 1972 Pinto wagon. I was stopped for a school crossing guard and was hit by a full size pick-up with a big bumper. As the Pinto's bumper was pushed, its bumper guards went into the tailgate crushing it. Above the rear windows, there was a definite "bend" in the body. The restoration shop that repaired my car had the body straightened, found a 1973 tailgate (Had the lift handle which the 72 model lacked so I didn't mind the different year), and replaced the bumper. After the repairs, my dad measured the door gaps and they were identical to what existed before the accident. I have no idea why Dad even knew what the gaps were! 27 years later, my Pinto is still on the road. Hopefully Hagerty's will cover your repairs. Good luck!
*The Original Family Car: A 1972 Pinto Wagon*
Ordered by my folks from Bunnell Motor Company, Inc., Bunnell, Florida
Delivered: June 20, 1972
Entrusted to my care: August 1976

Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 12:17:41 PM »

     I am back from the doctor with a good prognosis. I do have back problems but it just seems the accident just undid what the chiropractor finish doing 20 minutes before the accident.
     I have not heard back from Hagerty, but it has bee only one business day.
     I am hoping on receiving good news. I am planning on my next project for the car. The driver's seat is starting to have vinyl flake off. I am guessing that the front seats are interchangeabl e. If I take them off of their base, I am thinking they will interchange. The damage is hard to see, With the lighter usage of the passenger side, I thinking this will make it last for my lifetime. Someone please chime in and let me know if I am right.
Thanks
Bill
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline Wittsend

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 10:36:40 PM »
I'm not familiar with the seats in a '77 but since I have flip-flopped seats myself look for the forward tilt lock (if a non-adjustable type) or the fore/aft tilt lever (if adjustable) location. Unless they are centered in the seat back (on the non-adjustable type) they move so far inward that it can be difficult if not impossible to tilt the seat forward for rear entry. This may apply to the adjustable tilt type too. Usually they are on the outer edge of the seat. Flip-flopping them creates that problem.

Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 11:05:55 PM »
I should have mentioned I was not concerned about the release. In the 17 year I have owned the car, no one has ever sat in the back. I don't know the last time I saw the back seat, I keep it folded down. I assume the bolt holes will line up, but I wanted to know for sure. I am disabled so I need to ask someone to do it for me. I don't want to have them start the work and then find out it is not possible.
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Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline 1972 Wagon

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2019, 10:38:24 AM »
Any news from Hagerty? I assume Hagerty's is negotiating with the other person's insurance company. In the last 20 years, I think the only "passenger" in our Pinto's rear seat was our yellow Lab. We'd spread a blanket and Noah loved to ride back there.
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Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2019, 10:43:14 AM »
I reported this to Hagerty Friday. No response yet.
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Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline one2.34me

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2019, 01:27:22 AM »
I hope you are continuing to mend joebob. Do you still have the car so you can look it over real good and take it for a test drive to see how it feels? If it still runs. Perhaps being struck from the rear with such force, the body moved forward and the doors didn't, bending the hinges or hinge mount areas. That would leave no gap at the rear edge of the doors and a bigger gap on the forward edge. My ex was rear ended so hard in our '86 T-bird that it sheared the cars motor mounts. The only visual damage was a slightly misaligned bumper. She drove the car for years after that. I really hope you can save your Bobcat. I would hate to see it lost. It's a Mercury, they don't even make them any more!
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Offline Wittsend

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2019, 12:48:31 PM »
My Turbo donor car was an '88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe. It was an insurance salvage car that had been hit in the rear. The hit was hard enough to indent the center of the bumper about 8" breaking the fiberglass under structure. However, the trunk and the quarter panels stayed straight... right up to the center of the wheel openings. It was there that they crimped and bulged (the back section of the car having a drooped appearance) but the doors opened fine.

I used a propane torch (on the "frame rail") and a 4 ton bottle jack and got things looking rather decent. The drivers side just went back to normal. The passenger side required a bit of Bondo. I used a bolted 2X4 to put the left/right half's of the fiberglass bumper sub-structure back to one piece. I poured boiling water on the inside of the rubber bumper and placed a spare tire on the indent removing 95% of it.  I then drove the car for 10 years until it became a donor for my Pinto upgrade.

So, that is hopefully some encouragement for the Bobcat.

Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2019, 01:47:39 PM »

I drove the car home and did not think I had any damage. Only later did I notice the doors. I believe the car is fine. I shimmed the doors years ago because of worn hinge pin. I got 10 years usage out of it that way but it made the trailing door gap quite tight.. I am posting a picture of the driver side before the accident. You will see the trailing edge gap is real tight, but still cleared. If it only moved 1/16" it would prove to be a problem. The passenger door relaxed back into original position that I had it in. It works now. The gap is still tight but that is how I had it shimmed.

    I called Hagerity today. They had a 6 year out of date phone number for me. Things should start rolling now.
    The photos did not paste in order but you'll figure it out.
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Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline 1972 Wagon

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2019, 09:42:11 AM »
Just wondering how your Hagerty insurance claim is working out. Keep us posted.
*The Original Family Car: A 1972 Pinto Wagon*
Ordered by my folks from Bunnell Motor Company, Inc., Bunnell, Florida
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Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2019, 11:17:06 PM »

Hagerty sent someone out I don't think he had a clue. He climbed under my car without a light. I don't know how he could assess anything. His estimate was $4200.00
I took it to the shop on Thursday, I don't have their estimate yet.
I will post a follow-up.
Bill
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Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline one2.34me

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2019, 12:15:37 AM »
Wow, $4,200.00. I wonder what he saw that would require that kind of money to repair. The car runs and drives good. If there is no structural damage under the car, it looks like your mechanic could work with the door hinges to get some clearance on the trailing edges of your doors. Then have a paint shop feather in those chips and scrapes and paint and blend those areas. I hope your mechanic comes back with some real good news.
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Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2019, 09:32:19 AM »
I am expecting a higher price. One thing neither I or the insurance guy noticed was a kink in the real wheel wells. It is hard to see. The shop man saw it 30 feet away. At the top of the rear wheel well is a slight pucker. It is easy to miss. If the money was mine I could live with it. With Hagerty on the hook I want it perfect.
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Offline pinto_one

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2019, 01:00:59 PM »
A good frame man on a frame machine can pull most of that out , worked at a ford dealer in the late 70s and watch it done a few times , you just got to find a old guy thats been doing it for years to have a perfect job , ask around until you find one , that car looks good , saveing it would be a plus
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Offline one2.34me

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2019, 09:30:11 PM »
I agree with pinto_one, your Bobcat should be out on the road for a long time to come.
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Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2019, 11:21:50 PM »
     Time for a progress report. There is no progress!!! I did as Pinto_one recommended, " Find an old timer who understands vehicles of this era. The car was scheduled for the second week of May. It was postponed for a week and then another and another.
  Every year in June I go to a FOMOCO show in Golden CO. It is held just 2 miles from Coors. The show was June 23. I told the body shop I would like to set a firm date of the 24th. That would allow me to attend the show and give the shop 10 days to get their ducks in a row, then drop off the car.
    It is a good thing I went. They included my car on the poster and tee shirt for the show. I would not have wanted to miss that. My car won a prize despite it's damaged condition. I have attended 6 years and won a prize four of those years.
    A few days ago, I dropped in on the body shop to find the car sat untouched for almost 3 weeks. The guy now says he will start next week. Who knows?
    My Hagerty policy is up for renewal in July. I decided to update it. My coverage was $10.000 for $190 per year. I doubled the coverage, $20.000 for $292.00. I am no longer able to work on the car myself, If I have to replace it, I will have to hire it all done.
    Next we discussed the annual millage. I originally had it set for $3000 per year. Somehow it got change to 501 miles per year. If you have Hagerty you might want to check to make sure your millage limitations are accurate.
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Deuteronomy 7:9

Offline PintoMan1

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2019, 07:49:58 PM »
I to have Hagerty and mine is also $20,000 and $242.00 a year! my mileage is unlimited. but that doesn't matter, I'm lucky if I put 25 miles on it though out a summer. with time and weather not on my side!! last year I only put 4 miles on it. hoping to do more this season (July already) but its not looking good.  :(
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Offline PintoMan1

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2019, 07:53:14 PM »
oh, forgot to mention. that is full coverage, everything they have to offer is included.
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Offline JoeBob

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Re: rear ended no boom
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2019, 09:19:19 AM »
Denver is a very safe from natural disasters. We have very few weather events. No hurricanes, almost no tornados, we did have a flood in 65. We don't have much snow anymore, about 65 inches per year. That is more than most, but half what it used to be. It seldom stays for longer than a few days.
     What we do have is hail. Most shingles last less than 10 years. My dad replaced his roof 3 times in 5 years. Needless to say, this is hell on cars. A few years ago my friend lost all her glass and both bumpers were ripped off in 10 minutes. You can almost always find a car dealership selling hail damaged cars cheep.
      Your coverage is cheaper than mine for good reason.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9