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Author Topic: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?  (Read 2405 times)

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Offline pintovol

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Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« on: December 25, 2011, 12:04:29 PM »
I keep reading that oil with ZDDP is needed for older flat tappet engines , if this is the case what do i use in a 1976 2.3 that would have enough ZDDP

Offline mrskydog

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2011, 03:16:09 PM »
You can buy a oil additive when changing oil. I believe the one I have used is made by Wynns. Check Summit Racing , Jegs. Also some of your Diesil oil 10-30 15-40 still have that same additive in it. Look at the bottle. ;) They quit putting this lead chemical in oil a few years ago. All new style cars dont require it any more.
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Offline Starliner

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 09:13:45 AM »
The Feds have required oil companies to lower the ZDDP levels to make catalytic converters last longer.   What used to be good levels of ZDDP of our favorite oil brand may not be true today, even the diesel oils.    So you would need to confirm the MOST recent levels of a manufacturer's ZDDP levels before you could state that it will meet your needs.
 
The newer engines have roller lifters so the camshafts can still live with the lower levels of ZDDP.  (that can make the case for the Ranger roller cam in our 2300's)   Our cars have flat tappet camshafts and require higher levels of ZDDP.
   
The good news is that newer cars today specify thinner oil weights that we don't normally use.  So those thinner grades (like 0W-30, 5W-30, 5W-20 etc) are the oils with the lowest levels of ZDDP.  Automakers specify these thinner oils for improved gas mileage and good lubrication during cold start. 
For our older cars we should not use these thin oil grades.   We have larger clearances.   So the oil companies can maintain a slightly higher level of ZDDP for oils not specified by auto manufacturers for newer cars.    However if the ZDDP gets too high they need to specifiy the oil as for "offroad use only".
 
ZDDP helps when you have high valve spring pressures pushing a flat lifter firmly against the camshaft.  A car with heavy racing springs needs higher levels of ZDDP for protection. 
Now too much ZDDP can be bad!   It can wear out your bearing!   So that is why I do not recommend additives.  ZDDP & phosphorus levels are measured in ppm.  Yes that's "parts per million"!   Are you a chemist to get the mixture just perfect??  The ZDDP already in your oil plus the additive???     
 
I like Mobil 1 oils.   I have driven my 1600 Pinto over 80,000 miles on it and the engine looks like new inside.  My old Audi 5000 the same.   These cars are summer and winter driven. 
Here is the link for the ZDDP levels: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

I recommend using the following grades with no additives for the following conditions:
Mobil-1 15W-50 for temperatures above 50 degrees F.  It has the perfect ZDDP levels and the right viscocity for both stock and light performance older cars.
Mobil-1 10W40 high mileage for 25-60 degrees F.  ZDDP levels are OK for a broke in stock engine.
Mobil-1 0W-40 European for below 25 degrees F or cold starts below 45 degrees F if the car sits a lot.   ZDDP levels OK for a broke in stock engine
Mobil-1 0W-50 racing oil for high performance engines.  Very high ZDDP levels, film protection, and for a broad temperature range.
 
The only time I would add ZDDP additives is when you rebuild a engine and are doing the break-in.   
 
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Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 03:06:32 PM »
if the engine is a 2.3 you could swap in a 89  to 93 ranger or mustang 2.3 roller cam ... its a direct swap and you dont need to worry about it wearing out ever...and you dont need any special oil anylonger either..
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Offline beaner

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2011, 06:40:16 PM »
i use brad penn oil in my older engines
 
brad :)

Offline Starliner

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 10:23:14 AM »
Brad,
I agree with your choice if someone wanted to use a conventional oil.  It is one of the few oils out there remaining that have enough zddp and Brad Penn pays attention to the enthusiast market.   
Old porsche guys swear by this oil. 
link:  http://www.penngrade1.com/Zinc.aspx
Note that you need to be careful on what part number to buy to have the proper zddp.
If you buy the standard oil it will have low levels.  It looks like #7119 20W-50 is great for summer and #7150 10W-30 is good for winter.    Note that #7123 20W-50 is not good for an older engine.   
Brad Penn Product                        Blackstone                   Southwest Research
Penn Grade 1                               zinc 1,214 ppm                     zinc 1,540 ppm
20W-50  #7119                            phos 944 ppm                      phos 1,319 ppm
Penn Grade 1                               zinc 1,424 ppm                     zinc 1,565 ppm 
10W-30 #7150                             phos 1,139 ppm                   phos 1,332 ppm
Brad Penn PCMO                        zinc 689 ppm                        zinc 1,051 ppm
20W-50 SJ #7123*                     phos 522 ppm                       phos 901 ppm
*In some cases we feel our PCMO SAE 20W-50 was sent in for analysis (and not the High Performance Oil SAE 20W-50) which does contain lower Zinc and Phosphorous additive concentration levels.
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy

Offline fast64ranchero

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 12:02:28 PM »
Joe Gibbs racing oil, and I believe Valvaline Racing VR oils still have it
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Offline Scott Hamilton

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 12:36:47 PM »
What do you guys think of Schaeffer Oil?  I used it exclusively in my youth and recently found a rep to purchase it again. Just put this in my 72 Runabout..
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme-7000-racing-oil.html
I'm intrested in honest opinion.. Anyone heard of this?
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Offline bbobcat75

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 11:55:14 PM »
i was using lucas motor oil additive? anyone else use it?? have in a ton of my older cars and seem to help a ton!!!
have no idea if it has zddp in it though will have to check a bottle.
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Offline Starliner

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Re: Oil for Pinto with ZDDP?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2012, 12:41:59 PM »
What do you guys think of Schaeffer Oil?  I used it exclusively in my youth and recently found a rep to purchase it again. Just put this in my 72 Runabout..
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme-7000-racing-oil.html
I'm intrested in honest opinion.. Anyone heard of this?

Myself I  have had no personal history with this oil, however online searches show this to be a good oil for our application.  I would suggest the schaeffer 5W-50 if the temperature goes below 50 degrees or if your car sits a lot between starts.  Cold start up needs an easy flow of oil and most wear occurs at start-up.   
1973 Pinto 1600 - Sold!  
1979 Pinto 2300 - Sold!
1984 Audi 5000 Avant - 60,000 original miles
1987 Audi 5000 S Quattro - The snowmobile
1973 Volvo 1800 ES wagon -  my project car
1976 Mustang II - Wifey's new toy