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Offline shuffln

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larger rear wheels/ rear end alignment
« on: October 20, 2015, 06:23:49 AM »
so i was wondering what everyone is running for rear tires. i'm running 235-60-15's and don't have a lot of room behind the tire. there is only 1/2" before i hit the rear rocker panel but about 3-4 inches in front. Are you moving the rear end closer to center the wheel in the wheel well?  i can't fit a 70 series tire in there without hitting the rear wheel well or a set of tall slicks.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: larger rear wheels
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2015, 11:00:21 AM »
looks like your rear axle is not centered in the middle of the wheel well, might want to check your rubber spring pads , if the hole in them is all split up it will move forward or back wards , what front tire size are you running in front ?? thinking of going to a 205/60/R15 ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline shuffln

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Re: larger rear wheels
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2015, 11:30:46 AM »
Im switchibg out the rear end to a 8.8. With 4:10 gears

Offline Wittsend

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Re: larger rear wheels
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2015, 12:38:07 PM »
The rear axle is seriously out of alignment with the wheel opening.  I'm wondering if someone did a trans swap and the driveshaft is too long? Or, did someone remove the rear end and put it back incorrectly? Are the leaf springs in backwards? If that is the case then there is a risk of the shaft yoke falling out!

 Your post #2 is a bit vague, but have you ALREADY swapped in the 8.8? If the axle centerline to yoke centerline is longer than the the previous rearend that can account for forcing the rearend (rearward) out of proper alignment with the wheel opening.  In any case it needs to be put back in its proper place and that would require a proper driveshaft length.

   The clearance issues you have are more to the axle placement than tire size. There are limits to tire size of course but this problem needs to be rectified first.

Offline shuffln

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Re: larger rear wheels
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2015, 12:59:05 PM »
no i havent swap rear end yet.  but I was pretty sure the rear end wasn't sitting right.  as far as i know it is the factory 6.75" rear and stock 4 speed manual.  i'm swapping a 5.0, T5 and the 8.8 with 4:10's in there over winter.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: larger rear wheels
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2015, 11:15:32 AM »
Worry about tire fitment after fixing the rear end position.

Here's what could conceivably fit under there: http://www.theturboforums.com/threads/364549-1979-Ford-Pinto-EFI-5-0L-GT45-Build/page3?p=1971712#post1971712
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: larger rear wheels
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2015, 08:55:02 PM »
Instead of the title being "Larger Rear Wheels" perhaps a more accurate title would have been, "How's my rearend look?"  ;D   All meant in fun of course.

  Are you currently driving the car with the rearend positioned as it is?  Is the position the same on the other side?  I'd look underneath and see if the driveshaft is close to falling out of the transmission. If it is then you should re-position the axle in its stock location for safety reasons.  If the yoke is the proper depth in the transmission then someone likely used too long of a driveshaft forcing the wheels rearward.  Without the locating aspects aligning there is the risk of it coming loose.  Be safe.

Offline shuffln

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Re: larger rear wheels
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2015, 05:18:37 PM »
So i checked the front yoke and it seems to be sticking out of the transmission so def the rear end is to far back. Next question how do i adjust it back forward? Have an idea on how but dont want to guess

Offline Wittsend

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Re: larger rear wheels
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2015, 06:37:18 PM »
When you say "sticking out" is it predominantly silver colored and longer than about an inch (possible pictures)?  First, remember you do everything at your own risk. It is dangerous to crawl under a car much less unbolt the axle which leaves nothing between the floor pan and the ground. Properly supporting the car is paramount.

  That said it should be as simple as pulling the wheels off. Removing the 8 nuts on the U-bolts and moving it forward to the proper position.  There are protrusions and holes and they fit together to locate the axle.  Once properly positioned the U-bolt are re-tightened.   Now, if the spring have been reversed, or are not the proper springs then there is no properly positioning it.  Can you contact the previous owner and ask why the rearend is positioned as it is?

Offline shuffln

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Re: larger rear wheels/ rear end alignment
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2015, 07:04:41 PM »
Thats what i was thinking on reposition. The front yoke us about 2-2.5" out from tranny. I never noticed how far out it was until i put the 15" rims on. I also notice the rubber axle stopper/bumper is not centered over axle Out about 1.5-2". Im going to jack up the car placing jackstands( best spot for jsckstands?)and try to slide reat end

Offline Wittsend

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Re: larger rear wheels/ rear end alignment
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 09:49:32 PM »
It is odd that one side is more misaligned than the other. So, not only is it too far back, but it looks crooked too.  Does the car steer straight?  The driveshaft coloration looks like it has been in this condition for a while.

  FYI, it is more that just sliding it straight as there are locators on the springs and receivers on the rearend. So, the rearend needs to be lifted into place. Usually there is a bolt/nut at the hypothetical "mounting" center point (not necessarily truer center) of the spring that can be seen from the bottom.  You might check to see if they bolt/nut seems to align with the center point of the wheel opening. If not it could be the springs are installed backwards.

You will have to determine jackstand placement for yourself.  I highly recommend putting the tires (multiple if you have them) under the car in case it falls off the stands. Again, You can never be too safe.

Offline shuffln

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Re: larger rear wheels/ rear end alignment
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2015, 06:11:25 AM »
i've searched under the spring to find the center bolt that catches into the perch but it is very hard to see with the rubber plug.  that said if you look at the rubber stopper for bottoming out it is off center from the axle as well. the rear end sits square on both sides,  the two pics show the difference between the front and back.  the back is about 1/2 inch and the front is about 3" . ive jacked up the car and now need to undo the u bolts and see if i can slide the rear end forward to a more center position. A good soaking of penetrating oil and i should be able to crack them.   i agree it has been like this for a while now and yes the car drives find the way it is. i just need it to be more center so i can move it around from shop to shop before i swap the 8.8 rear end, T5 and 5.0 in. The shop from my house is about 1/2 hour drive.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: larger rear wheels/ rear end alignment
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 04:23:47 PM »
I've got some measurements for you. Though, first a few things need to be clarified.  I have an 8" rearend and I believe the axle tubes are larger that the 6-3/4". Thus, I took measurements from the centerline as that would be common to any straight axle.  I also have a station wagon and the leaf springs are longer.  I'd assume longer only rearward. Thus, I have no accurate rearward measurement for your sedan.

On the forward half of the spring I measured (from standard ride height) the centerline of the axle tube at its top to the center of the bolt holding the front of the leaf spring.  I got 19-1/2". The start point of the centerline was eyeballed as best I could.

  We know that you obviously have the rearend too far back just by visual observation.  I'm still wondering however if your springs are in backwards.  I'd assume that if you measured from your axle centerline (top), to your rear spring bolt on the bottom of the shackle - and got a measurement close to 19-1/2" - that would be indicative of the springs being reversed. Give that a try and report back (because I'm very curious).

Offline shuffln

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Re: larger rear wheels/ rear end alignment
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2015, 06:24:21 AM »
Ok fro. The front its roughly 19.5" so the springs are installed correctly

Offline mechanic

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Re: larger rear wheels/ rear end alignment
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2016, 04:54:07 PM »
late comer;

the leaf springs only go in one way the front ends are in line with the bolt and then loop up and around

I do not see how you can reverse them, as was said above, the distances to front and back are not equal

Offline Wittsend

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Re: larger rear wheels/ rear end alignment
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2016, 10:09:43 PM »
The spring spans the same (total) distance front to back regardless of whether it is properly placed or reversed.  So, in that regard (total) distance is not a factor.  Now, that said the through bolt on the front of the spring is larger than the rear. So, someone would have to use a smaller than original bolt in the front (not ideal) and would also have a loose fitment in the rear because the through bolt is too small.  So, yes, with sloppy fitment the springs can be installed backwards (and even upside down for that matter). Neither should be done, but it is possible.

There is a rear end locator associated with the spring that is more forward on the spring than rearward. Therefore if the springs had been reversed (and the rear end still aligned with the locator) it would have moved the rear axle backwards and out of the center of the wheel opening.  What I could not tell him was how far back because I have a wagon and the spring length is longer.  Thus if reversed the measurement with a wagon spring would have been different than a non-wagon.

The problem was his rear rend was located too far rearward.  We were trying to determine why.  Thus it was feasible that the spring  being reversed was a possible cause.