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Offline FordMavGirlLori

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How much interest in a prototype frame?
« on: June 09, 2015, 06:56:22 PM »
The little Maverick in my profile photo is actually a prototype Pinto. It's a one of car from the one my Grandfather hand built at the Lincoln experimental shop at Ford in Dearborn. It's a special high stall converter from a pinto prototype all done in their driveway in March 1969 before the unveil. The Maverick portion he bought in 1987, I flew to California with him to buy it.

I have been seriously considering getting rid of it. It needs a new torque converter and has sat for a while. The engine will still crank. It looks a little rougher than the photo, that was from 2002 I think.

Does anyine think there would be any interest in it from the Pinto crowd if I were to sell it?

Offline dga57

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2015, 12:12:29 AM »
You never know... it seems logical that someone here might be interested.  If you're serious about selling it, take lots of photos and list it in the Classifieds section, being sure to explain all the details, and see what happens.  It's a free service so you have nothing to lose by trying!


Dwayne :)
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Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2015, 09:50:18 AM »
Ahh yeah I just have to convince myself that I'm ready to give away the dream of restoring it. Thanks for responding!

Offline dga57

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2015, 09:53:38 AM »
Ahh yeah I just have to convince myself that I'm ready to give away the dream of restoring it. Thanks for responding!

I totally understand that!  If you're not 100% sure, then my advice would be to hang onto it.  I know it's difficult making decisions about things our loved ones leave behind - I lost my mother and my sister within a year and ten days and had to settle both estates.  I obviously couldn't absorb all their belonging into my household, but it was sure difficult deciding what to keep and what not to.

Dwayne :)
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Offline Wittsend

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2015, 03:17:25 PM »
"The little Maverick in my profile photo is actually a prototype Pinto. It's a one of car from the one my Grandfather hand built at the Lincoln experimental shop at Ford in Dearborn. It's a special high stall converter from a pinto prototype all done in their driveway in March 1969 before the unveil. The Maverick portion he bought in 1987, I flew to California with him to buy it."

I'm kind of confused. This is a Maverick, but not really. It's a Pinto prototype even though it looks like a Maverick? It was built at a Lincoln experimental shop, but not really. It was built in a driveway in March 1969. But the Maverick portion (of what???) was purchased in 1987 by the grandfather who built it either in the Lincoln experiment shop - or his driveway .

I'm finding the prototype aspect very intriguing, but following the story I'm completely lost.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2015, 03:27:05 PM »
(I'm COMPLETELY LOST)  ME TOO!
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2015, 07:50:56 AM »
The Maverick pieces are the engine and the shell/body. The Pinto pieces are everything underneath. The Pinto portion was made by the experimental shop guys and then assembled in the driveway at the house. I apologize for confusing you, sometimes it confuses me too. Hopefully that is a little better explanation.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2015, 04:00:40 PM »
Thank you for the clarification. When you say "everything underneath" does it have the Pinto crosmember/front suspension with the steering rack instead of a steering box?  I'd assume the C-4 transmissions are similar Maverick/Pinto except as you noted a higher stall speed convertor.  The rear end..., is it the Pinto 6-3/4" rear installed in the Maverick?  This would have the 4-1/4" (Pinto) instead of the 4-1/2" (Maverick) bolt pattern.

I'd be inclined to think that others as well as myself would be very interest to see pictures of this one-off hybrid.  If you have documentation there could be a battle between Maverick-Pinto people as to which group is more closely related to this car you have.

A side note on prototypes: In my Sunbeam Tiger world there are two prototypes. One quickly hacked together by Ken Miles. The other modified at Shelby's by George Boskoff.  Both are revered for their historical value.  Both were production Apline's altered to accept the Ford small block. Ironically (other than the prototypes) you NEVER try and pass off an Alpine with a small block Ford added as a real Tiger.  The Tiger people go nuts.

  Anyway, you may have a valuable piece of history - if documented. So, factor that in your decision. We would love to see the front suspension, the wheel bolt pattern and anything else distinctly Pinto on the Maverick.  I wonder if this would be "too" early Pinto for Pintony knowing his affection for the early cars.

Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 06:13:44 PM »
I snapped a few photos. Sounds like you're going to know better than I am and any extra info you can give me after you've looked will be much appreciated. I know just enough to get myself in trouble but not enough to know what i'm looking at for sure. I have some documentation, I may be able to find more but I think it's probably long gone. What I do have is the Uncle who helped him put it together.

Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2015, 06:15:16 PM »
Some notes but not the ones we need.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2015, 07:21:35 PM »
Thank you. From what I can see it is a stock Maverick front suspension. It does not have the Pinto rack & pinion setup.  The wheel bolt pattern is 5 X 4.5" which is also standard for the Maverick V-8 (Mustang, Comet... many more). The Pinto had  4 X 4.25" bolt pattern. Basically this is indicative of the rear end not being Pinto either.

 Both the Pinto and the Maverick are "unibody" cars. They essentially have no removable frame.  Thus there can not be a frame swap because each unibody is specific to the car length, width, wheel base and other various aspects are all weld into one unit.

So, it leaves a question mark as to what is specifically Pinto (prototype) on the car. You state the engine is not and the pictures indicate that the front and rear suspension aren't. The unibody aspects (and visible suspension) of the cars eliminate a frame swap.  My guess would be that the car might have been a test bed for a higher stall torque convertor eventually destine for a Pinto (that would be logical). But, beyond that everything else is looking stock Maverick.

I will note that the early Mavericks (1970) seemed to only come with 6 cylinder motors and 4 X 4.5" bolt pattern.  Your car is showing the 5 X 4.5" bolt pattern. So, that is unique I believe (at least for a 1970 car).  I'm assuming your car is a 1970 model based on the work done in the driveway in 1969.  You never stated what engine the car has but the exhaust indicates 6 cylinder to me.

   Certainly a mystery here for sure in two areas.  What parts (other than the stated torque convertor) are Pinto because everything else is indicating 6 cylinder Maverick, and why the 5 X 4.5" bolt pattern on an early 6 cylinder car???

Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2015, 08:29:46 PM »
Your commentary and observations are extremely helpful because, again, I barely know what i'm looking at. I would have just gone on believing what I was told by the Uncle. The internet is great for things like this. In the notes it says a heavy duty front suspension was installed in 1992. It also says 'installed orig alum wheels (mav option)' and 'installed 2.33 to rear axle'. I have no indications here as to why the 5 lugs are on it other than the fact that the axles are different so it's safe to assume he messed with the whole damn thing. This one did ride a whole lot nicer than the other I had driven for a while that was on those 4 lug wheels and all original parts. You were right in assuming it is a 6 cyl. Now I just want you to come here and tell me what else i'm missing! I almost think that if it's not as special as I was told then maybe I can part with it a little easier. I'm also wondering if it's better to sell it whole or part it out, that is, if I can stop loving what the giant pile of scrap once was. The only person that can tell me why and how with any certainty died in July of 2002.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2015, 03:36:36 PM »
The value in a car like this Maverick is if it lacks rust.  It is not so much rust like you see on the thicker parts on the pictures you post. Rather it is rust on the thin sheet metal. Buyers will tolerate some rust, but not if it is extensive - especially showing on the rockers (under the doors), the floors and around the windshields. As it relates to the floors it is not only what shows under the car, but they can rot from the inside out, so look under the carpeting.  Also a car considered rusted in the Southwest might not be considered all that bad in the rust belt part of the country. Assuming you are in Michigan it might be considered an OK car there.

Nothing on the car is rare of extreme value. So, I don't see parting it out as worth the effort. Therefore it would hopefully be lacking in significant rust and sold as a whole car.  That said, the thin bumper cars are a lot more desirable than the late,r thicker bumper cars. And a two door car is more valuable than a four door car.  You have the added benefit of the 5 bolt pattern axles and the period correct alloy wheels. So, in that regard you have those  positive aspects going for you.  I'd say the value is broadly in the $1,500-$3,000 range based on not knowing the actual condition.  If you decide to sell it, price it fairly. I've seen $1,000 cars linger year, after year, after year on Craigslist with $4,000 asking prices.

  Now knowing it is basically a Maverick a web site based on that would probably be more helpful. Regardless of what you decide please post back.  I'd be curious to know the final outcome.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2015, 05:11:08 PM »
Does the car run or can it be easily made to run, and will it clean up, inside and out side ?, does it have A/C or power steering,  since your listed in KY , you are not that far from the coast here , every year here we have crusein the coast and thousands of people head this way for a week of cars , if the car will clean up and run well it would sell, but if rust is holding the car together it's not worth the effort,  you do not know what you got untel you clean it up,  just a few words to help , hope it give you the idea
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2015, 08:33:02 PM »
It needs a new torque converter and a carb rebuild and it will run. A little gas in the carburetor makes it turn over and start as of April. The trunk has some rust holes in it and the bottoms of the doors are a little rough but everything else looks pretty solid. It spent some time outside in the weather before I stuck it in the garage. Cosmetically on the interior it needs a new headliner, it has '84 Mustang bucket seats (good condition but some fading) but needs new tracks on the drivers side (that broke while I was driving - not fun), dash and back seat are whole with no cracks. It has air conditioning but not power steering. I will try to remember to update!

Offline Reeves1

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2015, 01:00:47 AM »

Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2015, 12:50:42 PM »
I've had a screen name there for at least ten years.

Offline sedandelivery

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2015, 09:48:59 PM »
Maybe if you look up the vin number through Marti or something you can find out more history...Coul d be interesting.

Offline dianne

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2015, 06:46:06 AM »
I've had a screen name there for at least ten years.

Just curious what they said on the Maverick forums.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2015, 08:23:34 AM »
I've been selling some parts there but I have not gotten to the car yet. I have a guy from the forums that asked to come over and sift through the parts and help me identify some things. He will be over some time this week. Eventually I may post the car up there. I may have a family member who wants to buy as well.

Offline dianne

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2015, 08:55:32 AM »
I'm on the forums, well have been, on the Maverick forums. It seems like you have a Maverick with some things that someone played with. If you post the VIN number in that board on the Maverick forums, they can tell you what that car is. Chances are you have a Ford Maverick from what I see. I've had a few of them also.
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- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
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- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
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- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
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Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2015, 09:52:01 AM »
I really doubt the VIN will tell me anything, honestly. That would be specific to the body, would it not, and I know what that is.

Here it is for those interested. 1970, built in Kansas, 2-door sedan, straight six 200.

Offline dianne

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2015, 02:53:31 PM »
I really doubt the VIN will tell me anything, honestly. That would be specific to the body, would it not, and I know what that is.

Here it is for those interested. 1970, built in Kansas, 2-door sedan, straight six 200.

I would suggest you sell it on Craigslist or ebay. I just sold my Maverick, which was in awesome shape for only $2,200. It was a survivor with no rust actually. They don't go for much. That's my 2 cents. We all think we have a great car or project worth a lot of money and they end up being almost next to nothing in some realities.

Good luck with it!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline dga57

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2015, 08:00:31 PM »
I would suggest you sell it on Craigslist or ebay. I just sold my Maverick, which was in awesome shape for only $2,200. It was a survivor with no rust actually. They don't go for much. That's my 2 cents. We all think we have a great car or project worth a lot of money and they end up being almost next to nothing in some realities.

Good luck with it!

Unfortunately, that's true.  But I wouldn't change anything I've done in exchange for the money I've lost over the years.  The fun has been well worth the expense. 

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Offline FordMavGirlLori

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2015, 09:31:02 PM »
Unfortunately, that's true.  But I wouldn't change anything I've done in exchange for the money I've lost over the years.  The fun has been well worth the expense. 

Dwayne :)

Agreed!

Offline dianne

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Re: How much interest in a prototype frame?
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2015, 06:32:37 AM »
Unfortunately, that's true.  But I wouldn't change anything I've done in exchange for the money I've lost over the years.  The fun has been well worth the expense. 

Dwayne :)

I agree Dwayne!!! A LOT OF FUN AND LEARNING!!!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied