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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2014, 09:24:09 AM »
Here's the link to Daytona Parts:

http://www.daytonaparts.com

Notice they state "Ethanol Resistant Parts" right on the home page.
Maybe it's all BS.  Let me know what you guys think.
    Thanks for the link. It sounds great.  Well done web site. Their price's are more than new carbs are selling for on E-bay.
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2014, 09:41:51 AM »
What do the people in South America do? Some country's run on very high % of alkie as it is cheaper to make than gasoline. I know in a race car you need a way to light it off on start up. Then after the race we would run gasoline thru the engine to clean the alkie out.
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Offline Pintosopher

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2014, 11:29:14 AM »
Well ,  It would appear that this Thread is about as corrosive as a full tank of ethanol/gas blend left to sit for a year.  Since the issue of vapor permeation  only applies to OLD lines and digestive tracts, maybe we should ignore all combustible vapor and just disband the Blue Flame club.
 I suspect that all of this lunacy was intended to drive up the Price of Taco shells , and  to relieve us of more greenbacks.  Flatulence rules, Political, or organic, you can't escape the consequences.
 You can change your Consumption and take a Beano or two..

 Spitting a few lines,
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Offline amc49

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2014, 05:19:10 PM »
I work on plenty of small engines as well, lawn, garden, 2 cycle, 4 cycle. The short passages before the vent to atmosphere is why they mess up so fast, like older cars vented to atmosphere way too easy. A lot of the trouble goes away if you dedicate to running the unit totally out of fuel before storing it for the winter. Emptying tank is not enough, you have to pump the carb clean of fuel by running it. Ethanol in the fuel hardens the flapper valves in diaphragm carbs even faster than regular stale fuel used to. Why most have changed from rubber flappers to mylar or plastic.

The hot and cold of the day pumps water vapor in with air aspiration all day long. Late model PCM controlled cars if truly vapor tight can sit with the fuel for over a year and no phase separation, I've done it. Best to fill the tank close to completely though. Less airspace to bring water then.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2014, 08:45:06 PM »
My pressure washer has a B/S and it sat for almost a year, I put Sta-Bil in the gas and filled it to the top, when I dragged it out it fired on the second pull. Now that I have access to non-ethanol gas I been using it and it runs WAYY better..
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Offline amc49

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2014, 03:56:15 PM »
On my rider mower which sits outside 100% of the time I keep tank filled and I use soft cheaper thin wall baggies like 3 of them one over the other and strong rubber bands to cinch them tightly around tank neck so the cap breather cannot freely breathe air. Been doing that for 3 years now and it always starts almost instantly after the winter sit as I unsnap the air filter lid and shoot a short shot of starting fluid in before that first crank. Engine itself is kept relatively protected by covering with garbage bags and cinching them down to stay in place. That mower has been running now for pretty close to 24 years, at 16 I rebuilt the engine. Still runs perfect.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2014, 07:01:29 PM »
Yeah, sitting outside definitely want to cover it up, mine sits in the shop so it's not exposed to the elements, as long as I keep it full I don't have issues..
Art
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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2014, 09:14:35 PM »
OK, thanks for all those gas price updates...... :o
Getting back to the original point of this post,  anyone have any problems with fuel pumps and carbs as a result of using gas with ethanol.  I don't have access to ethanol free gas here, so I'm wondering if I should be updating my carb and fuel pump to avoid problems.

I have been using E10 in my carbureted Mustang since I got it in '05 because E10 is all that's available out of a pump in CA (by law...even VP StreetBlaze 100 is E10 at  $8.00/gal). The biggest problem I have is with the carburetor (Holley 650) drying out when the car sits for a long time. The floats stick open and the bowl gaskets weep for a while afterward. The soft parts were all new in 2005. The biggest problem I experience with E10 is a short shelf life even in sealed containers and fuel systems.

The best thing you could likely do to ensure maximum ethanol compatibility would be to replace the fuel pump, replace the soft fuel line with modern alcohol-resistant type, and install new soft parts in the carb.
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Offline amc49

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2014, 02:46:48 PM »
Boy howdy does gasoline dry up faster with ethanol in it. Spill some around the lawn mower while fueling and a great amount can be evapped in like 10 seconds. Never saw anything like it.

Are your 'sealed' containers fully sealed? I have used say 10% 2 stroke fuel/oil mix and let it even go over the winter to use the next year and no trouble at all and same with tank of fuel in a car ('98 Contour) that was down well over a year. It instantly started up and ran fine but I don't prefer to do that. I diluted the car tank by filling with fresh fuel as soon as it was up and running. I do generally try to act as if the 10% has a shelf life of say one year. I just let a Focus sit for 6 months while doing other things too, the tank was somewhat open to the environment as the fuel pump came out of the top (I cut a hole under the back seat rather than drop the tank to preserve all the old hose structure there). Half tank of fuel in it and I had covered the open 8 inch hole with foil beaded tight over the hole to lower air aspiration. Fuel was still clear when pump went back in and car started and ran again instantly with no issues. Yet let the fuel sit for ten minutes in the outside air and it separates and water in it. Some funny stuff there.

That's on EFI stuff, I've had fits with it on say 4 cylinder bikes, the floats can stick in as little as two weeks, the carbs just vent way too much. Carbed cars probably do that as well. The small engine stuff does but way too easy to simply rebuild carb on the spot and fixed there. Running them clean out of fuel to not allow the slower drying out seems to be the best thing to do there. Been working fine for me. Letting the fuel bowls dry up slowly on their own is definitely a mistake.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2014, 04:12:20 PM »
The sealed containers I refer to are airtight, non-permeable steel cans or EFI fuel systems. Plastic fuel jugs let oxygen right through the sides.

I shut off the fuel and run my bike's carb dry before parking it. No problems in the last 10 years.
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Offline amc49

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2014, 05:25:52 PM »
And what I do with the bike as well. Oddly enough all my fuel containers are pretty much plastic and no trouble......???????? Go figure. They are the emission ones though that try to blow out or zoop in the sides so they seal pretty good. Stick them in during the summer and almost caved in flat in winter, put out in sun for an hour and they puff sides back out, I hate them.

Offline AndrewG

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2014, 10:53:08 AM »
.........The best thing you could likely do to ensure maximum ethanol compatibility would be to replace the fuel pump, replace the soft fuel line with modern alcohol-resistant type, and install new soft parts in the carb.

I think that's what I'll do.  Thanks for the advice.

Offline popbumper

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2014, 02:07:46 PM »
On a related note - ethanol laced fuels tear the absolute CHIZ out of the plastic pieces in lawnmower and string trimmer fuel related parts. Be sure (too late for some now but....) when you store your equipment for winter that you have run it dry of fuel and emptied it, otherwise you're asking for shortened life. I found this out the hard way.

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Offline Pintosopher

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2014, 03:03:13 PM »
On a related note - ethanol laced fuels tear the absolute CHIZ out of the plastic pieces in lawnmower and string trimmer fuel related parts. Be sure (too late for some now but....) when you store your equipment for winter that you have run it dry of fuel and emptied it, otherwise you're asking for shortened life. I found this out the hard way.

Chris
Eventually, the Power equipment industry will react and manufacture the same plastics used in automotive fuel tanks on newer cars. For now, annual evacuation and replacement of hoses is the drill. We can only hope the new Congress will gut the EPA enough to kill ethanol at more than 10% and maybe stop its use altogether. ::)
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2014, 06:38:41 PM »
10% will not matter to you, cause you live in the land of fruit and nuts. 50% by 2020. Also heard that Harry Reid is talking about a toll gate on the border to keep you guys from moving to Nevada.
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Offline sedandelivery

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2014, 07:18:20 PM »
One of the posters mentioned South America. In Brazil alcohol from sugar cane is widely used to fuel vehicles, as it is plentiful and cheap. The engines in those cars are specially designed to burn both gasoline or alcohol. Because of the tropical climate, the water condensation problem is not a big deal because it does not get cold enough to freeze. I do not know if the formula they use is different from the corn based ethanol we use here.

Offline amc49

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2014, 03:09:11 AM »
'Because of the tropical climate, the water condensation problem is not a big deal because it does not get cold enough to freeze.'

Nope not even. The high humidity is what leads to the water in the fuel to begin with and cold is not the issue nearly so bad as water in the fuel regardless of temperature. The water combined with ethanol which is a weak acid then speeds up corrosion in hot weather. The sitting unused causes it not the cold.

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2014, 05:03:00 AM »
It is my understanding the biggest problem is ethanol has a tendency to absorb water,  and indeed the parts have to be made for ethanol. The reason alcohol has not seen a big use here is in the winter the condensate froze in the fuel lines and the fuel could not get through to the engine. In Brazil, the engines are made to withstand the ethanol, and it's warm so it does not get a chance to freeze. I have had many problems with the ethanol gasoline here, especially in small engines.

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2014, 11:30:12 PM »
Highly possible, but here in Texas the corrosion issue is a lot more in your face. I've never had it freeze in lines but up north, oh yeah, I assume that would be an issue. Here, simply stirring up the fuel like the way I clean parts will pull water into it in less than five minutes on a humid day and during the summer. A car carb fuel bowl will dry up in say a month as compared to 2 or 3 before with straight gasoline and the rubber parts left behind get quite a bit harder than before. Rock hard actually.

A funny but helpful side effect........ .....having the ethanol in there makes parts cleaned with fuel rinse much drier with water after, the ethanol does not leave behind a slight oily residue like straight gasoline used to. Parts washed so then airdry to bone dry in a couple minutes in the sun. Nice on bigger pieces like valve covers with baffles in them. Oil is removed pretty much 101%.

Offline pintoguy76

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Re: Ethanol and rubber parts
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2015, 09:20:28 AM »
My experience with ethanol problems was with small engines. It plays  havoc with 2 cycle such as chain saws, leaf blowers, and weed whackers, and the snow blowers have to have their carbs redone every winter. They sell expensive canned ethanol-free gas we might try. The vehicles (dump truck and cars) not so much. I think the seasonal sitting of the small engines have a lot to do with it.

Yep! The small engines suffer the most. Haven't had any problems in the cars but then again id replaced all my parts that have rubber in them since this whole ethanol thing started. I imagine new carb kits and pumps and bulk fuel line are all made with new stuff that is ethanol resistant.  With that said, I still prefer to get premium fuel from a station that doesnt put ethanol in their premium. Missouri state law requires 10% ethanol in all gasoline UNDER 91 octane. Most stations put it in the 91 too. I have one station here that advertises no ethanol in their premium. I try to get fuel there...

Ethanol is nasty. It eats rubber, contains less energy (causes more fuel usage) plus its corrosive among other things. The ford dealer told my boss that the ethanol in our fuel does something to the spark plugs that makes them not last as long too. Cant remember what it was tho...
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