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Offline Svtcobra97

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V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« on: June 11, 2017, 10:01:25 AM »
Hey there V8 swappers.  I'm in the middle of my own V8 swap by putting a SBF into my 1977 wagon.  My question here is that during the mock up phase the placement of the motor/frame mounts became a concern.  I was wondering what the distance from the motor mounts to the firewall typically is so that I could determine if I'm in the neighborhood before proceeding any further.  I have been told that the best way to determine this distance is to work from the transmission location and work forward.  What worked for you with your builds?  any suggests/idea would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2017, 04:47:08 PM »
Have not done the swap myself but that advise makes sense. The car will become front heavy and every inch forward only increases that. Plus, if you did work front to back you would have to move the trans/driveshaft (alterations) forward to no advantage.  I often use Google Images to help me in these situations. You obviously won't get exact measurements but at least you will get an idea of how it goes.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2017, 09:08:36 PM »
As mentioned on FB....

Drop the engine in close to where you want it. It will need to be tilted back, so you can bolt the bell & trans on, from under car.

Then drop engine down to where you want clearance over the rack. Again, how much it clears will depend on how much movement is in your mounts. Keep TQ in mind : it will lift on the left & push down on the right.
Set it back so it just clears the firewall.
Center the engine.
Line trans tail shaft up with diff. Imagine (or use) a string line from the center of the crank, through trans to diff.
Trans mount may need to move left. right, up or down. Depends on which mount you are using - you may need to get another to fit your needs.

After it's all placed & will not move, make the frame mounts.
Tack weld in place - remove engine/tran & weld frame mounts in place.

I'd guess you plan on using cast exhaust manifolds ?
66 Mustang works best. I'll see if I can find the part numbers....

Offline Wittsend

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2017, 10:21:09 AM »
In a recent post I mentioned a friend who did a 289 swap back in the 70's. he used the cast manifold. They were inverted. Meaning the swept upward and forward with the pipes making a roughly 180 degree turn. At the time I thought it looked strange. Today it makes very practical sense though clearance at the crossmember was still tight. I can't remember if he went over or (yikes) under it.

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Offline Svtcobra97

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 04:37:15 PM »
The plan is to use Mustang II exhaust manifolds but if there is a better alternative then I'm all in.  Also I hate to keep bringing is up but we first tried to use Mustang II motor/frame mounts and that turned into a real mess.  The advice I'm getting here and elsewhere is greatly appreciated and is helping.  My goal is to drive the car to Cleveland in August.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2017, 05:26:42 PM »
Mll mounts & exhaust manifolds are for an off set engine.
I gave a set of Mll frame mounts away because I knew I'd never use them......

Manifolds I was talking of, part numbers, are in the shop (ie: for used)

But the ones you are looking for: http://www.cjponyparts.com/1964-1973-mustang-exhaust/c/10070000/?p=2

HiPo ones: http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-exhaust-manifold-pair-289-hi-po-1965-1967/p/EXM4/

Standard ones: http://www.cjponyparts.com/exhaust-manifold-pair-260-289-302-1965-1970/p/EXM3/

Offline dick1172762

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2017, 05:34:08 PM »
If the Mustang II frame and motor mounts were a "mess", you've really got problems as most V8 Pintos use them. Did you have the Mustang II oil pan and bellhousing/tranie? You must have all these parts or be good at making your own. No short cuts are allowed on this swap.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2017, 05:41:14 PM »
Best mounts I've used in pictures below. Note the factor pin. Part number should be visible (click on white box to see bigger ?)







Any SBF Ford Mustang mount with this pin can be used.
Adjustment is made when you make the frame mount.
Make it out of .125 plate min, with gussets . Pipe bolt will go through for the long bolt is advised, between ears.
Very easy to make....


If your engine isn't going to be big power, these will do just fine.

http://www.cjponyparts.com/motor-mount-289-302-351w-351c-11-1-1965-1972/p/MM2257/

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2017, 05:47:59 PM »
Oil pan I like to use is part Milodon part # 30925

Says for up to 73. It works on newer blocks as well. The difference is where the dip stick is. 73 down had them in the timing chain cover. 73 up in the side of the block. To use on a newer block, tap the hole for a screw in plug & plug it, then use a timing chain cover with the dip stick.

Note : all the hardware that you will need is listed there as well. Min you will need is the pick up.

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/street-oil-pans-ford73.asp

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2017, 05:53:55 PM »
Water pump I use from Ford Racing is part # M-8501-E351S

https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-8501-E351S

Allows an extra 1.5" of space at the front of the engine.

For pulleys, I use them for the above app are from CVF Racing.

http://www.cvfracing.com/ford-v-belt-billet-pulleys-s/33.htm

Make sure to call them to place the order & tell them what water pump & year of engine you are running.

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2017, 05:57:38 PM »
What did I miss..... ?

Hard to tell someone on line how to go about this & make it easy etc.........

Offline Reeves1

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2017, 06:00:50 PM »
If the Mustang II frame and motor mounts were a "mess", you've really got problems as most V8 Pintos use them. Did you have the Mustang II oil pan and bellhousing/tranie? You must have all these parts or be good at making your own. No short cuts are allowed on this swap.

Forgot about the bell. Use the smaller two.
I think one is 141 tooth flywheel ?
Next is 157 (what I use) - along with matching bell.

If you have the 164 (162 ?) it's too big....

Offline Reeves1

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2017, 06:12:36 PM »
I also put 90 degree fittings in my heater hoses:




NAPA
3/4 elbow connector 9925
5/8 elbow connector 9924

Behind the catch tank for the rad I reduced the 3/4 hose to 5/8 with reducer connector 9911

Used banded clamps. Looks much nicer when no rubber/silicone is sticking through the slots.

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2017, 06:14:13 PM »
What front springs are you going to use ?

Offline pinto_one

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2017, 08:36:55 PM »
Well we know you want to drop in a 302 and have it almost plug and play , it depends very much on what you have on hand , and the right parts that work , easy back 25 years ago , today kind of a pain but doable, last 302 swap I done was over 25 to thirty years ago , Dick and Reeves are very correct,  one the engine is offset some , and the mustang II mounts are how you put them on , if you do use them you will have to move the right side engine support from the side rails and move it back some and redrill/ weld , or just use two drivers side mounts , one of the (do to my age I forgot which one) mounts you have to drill a hole to clear the pin that sticks out from the engine mount , if you are going to use the C-4 try to find the mustang II bellhousing , small housing and tourqe converter , clears firewall , early 66 to 68 passenger side exhaust manifold, cut off choke stove , install pipe on manifold and bolt on when engine is bolted in , (very close here ) drivers side 289 or 302 early fairlane , 45 degree angle , clears everything, oil pan ,mustang ii, yep they are gold but a must , last you can go with the newer front timeing cover with the short water pump , but you will have to make provisions for the dip stick , as for me I made up my own short water pump,setup, used 66 289 timing cover , took a 66 289 water pump and disassemble it , measured the water pump seal to the end of the housing , took off the distance of the bearing length, cut off the extra length of the water pump housing , pressed the flange for the pulley untel it almost touches the bearing , cut off extra shaft on that end , press bearing into water pump housing untel 1/8 inch from seal , press on impeller , used the thin three bolt damper , made a aluminum top and bottom pulley , use 2.8  V6 radiator and have larger necks installed , turn the support on it backwards , the reason is you can trim the top of the frame on the carnand use spacers to move it very close to the front (worth a half inch ) , at least that is how I done it , hope this help some , and lastvuse the V 8 mustang II front springs , they fit . Later Blaine

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Reeves1

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2017, 08:03:25 AM »
Awesome to have this site for info like above !
Unlike FB, it's here for ever (I hope) for others info.

FB, and it's gone in days & many (at least me) are reluctant to re-post the info.......

Offline Reeves1

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2017, 08:23:09 AM »
Found the pictures & part numbers.






Offline pinto_one

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2017, 08:37:42 PM »
Yep ,those bring back memories, the right side you have will work , only you will have to grind/cut off the chock stove ,yes it's that close , the left side would work but the pipe has to make a 45 angle right out of the end , I think I used a 67comet  or 68 manifold on the left side , sad when you lose old photos over the years of the stuff you had done over the years , thanks Reeves 👍
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline Reeves1

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2017, 05:40:45 PM »
Those manifolds were on my car when I bought it & they worked perfect.
Lots of clearance.

Offline pinto_one

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2017, 08:27:15 PM »
Hang on to them , you never know you my use them again. I think the ones I had were just a little thicker , but just
enough to work, if only those sadistic engineers would have gave a few more inches in the engine bay😫
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2017, 06:13:59 AM »
Sold them to a guy in Calgary. V8 wagon. By the sounds of it, he had what may have been the Hooker Headers & he didn't like how they ran 2 tubes each side through the front wheel well.

At my age, the likelihood of me building yet another car is remote...... unless I win the lottery ?  ;D

Blue car will be my last one.....nearly done the SUB frames & will post pictures then....

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2017, 06:43:33 AM »
Same here , my last pinto will be the cruzer Wagon , when I retire soon I want to enjoy them and not work on them ,keep up the good work on yours , looks great 😁
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

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Re: V8 Swap - Motor/Frame Mounts
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2017, 07:30:28 AM »
Topic starter last active June 12 - it's the 18th.

Hope he checks in for the info.....if not, hope someone else benefits from this......